AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

[Only13percentleft]

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.

And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

Only those that are bigoted will worry about sharing spaces with trans children,

Have you, also, read the OP's post about why her child cannot be in a mixed sex sleeping place? No? Was it bigotry that got all the girls assaulted, who have been sexually assaulted by boys? Was it bigotry that got girls who were sexually assaulted by a male family member, removed to foster care and not allowed to sleep in a mixed sex environment? Or are you calling traditional religious families, bigoted? Because that's OK, isn't it, to call religious people bigoted?

N0rdic so all those newspaper reports about girls being assaulted at school by boys are lying are they?

Soooooo a few news reports on a minority make boys generally predators?

Do you know how insane that sounds?

You do understand how babies are made, right?

Good point hamster

Though again in this brave new workd I understand that a lesbian can get another lesbian pregnant

So maybe that what n0rdic is referring to

@N0rdicStar you trust GG. Suggest you take a look at their Girls Attitude survey for 2018. See for yourself how many girls reported sexual harassment. How many girls have or know someone who has been raped or sexually assaulted. How many girls have been sent or asked for inappropriate photos on social media. It's not other girls doing this to them.

Girls face endemic levels of sexual harassment and unwanted attention. If the girls want a penis free space to get changed in, I don't see how that's unreasonable.

I'd be more worried about the risk from staff the staff!

The amount of abuse allegations from these types of organisations is way more than it should be. I don't see the appeal of sending young children off with unqualified volunteers whose motivations are unknown.

But yes, I do agree that it should be transparent who will be sleeping where.

Boys and trans are not generally predators

No. But males are far more likely to be predators than females.

Additionally this is not just about sexual assault. As has been repeatedly stated it is about privacy and dignity. It is about parents being aware they are sending their child to a mixed sex group. It is also about the fact that GG is discriminating against some boys by not allowing them to join unless they say they are girls.

Here are the relevant pages from the Girls Attitudes survey 2018. And ask yourself again if its too much to offer girls a single sex space.

And I repeat a minority do not make boys abusers by default. Utter insanity and very wrong to tar all young boys with this brush.

Yes this thread is a lesson in ignorance.Boys and trans are not generally predators.hmm

Except 98% of the time.

And I repeat a minority do not make boys abusers by default.

Is this really your level of comprehension?

Males commit 98% of all sex crime.

If you answer this is oh my God you're saying that all males are predators, you've got trouble with basic comprehension.

I agree with you in principle, I would not be happy about it.
However i’m Not sure I’d let my political (?) views affect my daughters happiness.
Make a point in another way, not by using your daughter as a sock puppet.

You are honestly saying 98% of boys are abusers.

Finally we get some clarity.

So because most boys and men are not predatory and it's wrong to assume they might be, does this mean girls and women can just stop risk assessing all together now? Does this mean we can just stick our middle finger up to all those people who tell women that we need to take precautions and not put ourselves in risky situations? After all if it's wrong to assume males might be predatory then it is also wrong to carry out actions which might be perceived as tarring males this way?

If a woman takes her drink to the toilet with her because she doesn't want to leave it unoccupied then is she simply following basic safety advice that has likely being drilled into her since she was young? Or is she doing something wrong by apparently tarring the men around her as being predators just waiting to pounce on her drink as soon as she's out of earshot to drug It?

Very confusing.

You are honestly saying 98% of boys are abusers

No she isnt

You do desperately need some clarity

Im not sure about the we bit

The vast maj of sexual offenders are criminals and previous offenders, very few are under 17.

Being a boy doesn’t make you highly likely to be a sex offender.

A nightclub filled with adults looking for the opposite sex late at night where alcohol and probably drugs are very much in existent is by no means comparable to a gg camp.

You are honestly saying 98% of boys are abusers

No. Good grief.

98% of sexual crimes are committed by males.

Also, consider that less than 1% of rapes get prosecuted.

There is an epidemic of male sexual violence in this country, indeed on the planet.

You are honestly saying 98% of boys are abusers.shock

Finally we get some clarity.

Indeed we do have clarity. Your slip showing.

Datun - you kinda make it sound like 98% of males are predators

Just a point though, nobody is actually saying that trans people need to be excluded if that is the policy. Just that parents and the girls themselves need to be informed of this to be able to make that decision with all the information to hand.

And hiding in plain sight is how we ended up with so many abuse scandals. Where everyone knew, and nobody was brave enough to shout out and when they did, nobody actioned their complaints.

Datun - you kinda make it sound like 98% of males are predators

No, predators are 98% of the time, male.

All dogs have 4 legs does not mean that all animals with 4 legs are dogs.

It's basic logic.

So we’re agreed then, very few boys are sex offenders.

I still don't get why the 98% is relevant in this case. What a fearful way to see the world.