To think this will destroy our marriage

[skunkatanka]

Feeling pretty low at the moment. We've been married for nearly 20 years and have two children, youngest is 4. We don't have much support around us- we are older parents and so have older still grandparents who are not in a position to give us time off. As such we haven't had a night out as a couple for 12 years- no exaggeration.

We haven't stressed about this though and have just made the most of evenings when the kids are in bed. However, recently more and more every time he puts our daughter to bed he falls asleep on her floor and doesn't appear downstairs until late when any hope of an evening together has gone. He's done this the last two nights and hasn't emerged yet tonight (he's done a few bedtimes in a row for various reasons). This seems to have become his routine. I have mentioned it to him but it continues.

Added to this, he shows me no affection whatsoever. Never says he loves me, never touches me in any way- to hold my hand or even give me a peck on the cheek before I go to work. We haven't had sex since well before Christmas.
He's a great dad who dotes on the kids and a good husband in the sense that he'll cook meals and do his bit around the house etc. I just feel that we've become friends only and even that is questionable given that we now spend so little time together.

We're in our 40s and I feel so lonely. It would destroy our children to break up the home in which they are loved. We don't argue etc, there's no animosity and it would be a huge shock to everyone if we split up. I also don't want to be a part time parent- sharing Christmas etc etc. I know many do it but I just couldn't face that.

How do I fix this MNetters? Can I fix it?
Sorry for ramble. It's good to get it off my chest.

OP why did you bother creating this thread? What do you want? You reject all advice. You baby your 12 year old high schooler, which is not doing her any favours at all. You whinge in you op that you haven't had a night out together, and in subsequent posts talk about how you just want to go out together. Now you are saying you don't care about going out. You seem extremely confused and don't even seem to know what you want.

Do yourself and your marriage a favour. Get your daughter to cook dinner (why do I get the feeling you probably haven't even taught her how to boil an egg?) for herself and her sibling. The sibling is 4 years old. Not a newborn or infant. Go out for one hour or two hours to start off with. Have a couple of drinks with your husband at a pub or place very close by. Give the eldest a trial. She certainly should be taking on more responsibility at her age. Kids even have mobile phones these days, with automatic dial for emergency. When I grew up in the late 80s to 90s, we didn't have mobile phones. We coped. We were expected to cope. To be responsible, to help out around the house. To cook dinner (or at least get dinner started), to do clothes washing. This generation of parents are rearing self-indulgent coddled spoilt brats who are leaving high school without being able to cook dinner or be on their own. It's time your senior daughter was taught responsibility.

Either that, or you and your husband grow further and further apart because of your unrealistic ideas of parenting a high schooler, you end up hating each other because you don't leave the house. You are getting good advice. Stop making excuses as to why every suggestion won't work. If you do split (and there is better than even chance you will if you don't wake up) you will look back to this thread and kick yourself for not acting. Act now, before you lose your marriage.

When your kids are small you can get quality time together easily after they are in bed. But a 12-year-old isn’t asleep at 8 pm. It’s lovely to have more time with your children but it does take something away from that special couple time. It’s incredibly important to be flexible in a marriage and a family as things change all the time. As soon as you’ve got a comfortable routine your needs are all of a sudden different and it doesn’t work anymore. For 12 years you’ve had no interest in leaving the house at night, but perhaps now it’s time to consider it. The vast majority of other couples do it once in a while, which doesn’t mean you have to but it probably means there’s something to it. Also your fears of leaving your babies with strangers are hardly the same now that your children are four and 12! If you ask around you will find a friend or neighbour with a trusted nanny or daughter/son who can come sit with your kids of an evening while you and your DH get some time alone. Your four-year-old who caaaaan’t be with “strangers” may very well surprise you. It’s all in how you present it. If uou present it as a big scary deal that we need to prepare for and endure and hey treats when it’s over, your child will be scared. But if it’s matter of fact, it may be a lot easier than you think, if not the very first time then the second and third, especially because the 12-year-old sibling will be there.

Can you join a babysitting circle? That way you know you can trust the other parents hopefully. I honestly don't understand why you can't find a trustworthy babysitter, it isn\t that hard. 12 years is a LONG LONG time to never have a night out as a couple . Any marriage would be on its knees by that point. Your husband sounds depressed and exhausted to me. He also sounds like he's avoiding you.

Counselling as soon as you can arrange it, and a babysitter are the first steps. I wonder if there is part of you that really doesn't want to go out with him? If you really wanted to, you would have sorted it out long ago.

OP, is it possible for you or your DH to reduce your working hours? Mine and DH’s relationship took a real nosedive once I went back to work full time and we both became too exhausted to give each other much attention in the evenings. Both of us doing household chores in the evening isn’t conducive to romance. When I was part time things were so much easier and less stressful as we just had more time for each other in the evenings, to properly chat about each other’s day etc. (Wasn’t my choice to go FT, it was that or leave the job altogether)

Both parents working FT is really difficult. It is exhausting as you get older. (And I know that your job is particularly exhausting) Throw in kids who eventually go to bed at the same time you do and it’s really difficult to remember you’re part of a romantic couple.

Your marriage isn’t over by any means, it’s just hit a flat point. You DO need to consider paid babysitters. Depending on the maturity of your 12 year old, you could consider going out for a coffee for an hour at a nearby coffee shop one weekend day just with your DH, and leaving 12 year old minding the 4 year old. (If you think that would work).

OP - I'm more concerned about your husband having time out in the evenings than you because you are being very unreasonable in this thread, won't countenance a well qualified and experienced babysitter, are playing the victim, etc. And you come across as someone who doesn't like going out on your own. There is surely no reason why you both can't go out alone an evening or 2 a week? Get a hobby. Meet up with friends. Would help your marriage too.

Communication is key. If something is making you unhappy then you need to tell him, it’s as easy as that. You can’t expect to mope and have him guess that something is wrong.

Go up to your DD’s room and wake him up. Tell him you’re unhappy with the lack of affection.

So what you are saying op is that you don't want to go out more often, you are happy with a quieter life you would like more affection.

Well that is easy, make an effort and have a romantic evening in with gorgeous food, fine wine some pretty pants (even if you have to buy them!) start to reconnect with your sexuality and when the evening is over, ask dh to organise the next one put in the diary and remind him a few days before to organise the dinner. Every fortnight do the same.

In the summer you can sit on blankets in the garden, star watching.

Turn off the TV, no screens and talk. Talk about the future, talk about the lack of sleep, talk about how much your marriage means to you.

The only way you will fix this is by telling how much you need affection in your life, and show him how you want to be held, how you like to be kissed.

We all have peaks and low points, a long marriage will see plenty of excitement but always stagnation.

If you want your marriage to work then start by being affectionate and open with him. Kiss him, hold him, and don't be afraid to initiate the affection and love. Someone has to break the rut, and as he sounds to so dead tired you need to be the one, on this occasion to make your marriage better.

I would be miserable if my marriage revolved around work, putting kids to bed and having a chat.
No wonder your husband is falling asleep what an utterly depressing existence.

We are in the same boat too. We have zero support. Recently my husband had a text from an old friend, asking us to get a babysitter for a night out to meet his new partner. We both looked at each other and laughed! We would love to go out together but cannot afford a professional babysitter, and would never leave them with someone we vaguely know! It's been years since our last night out. But I'm not too bothered as we go out when the children are in school, for a walk and lunch. We can take turns to go out if we wanted to anyway.

The other way to look at it is if your DH is sleeping upstairs, he's got the childcare thing sorted and you're free to go out with friends. Sometimes less is more when it comes to time spent together. If you've each had a bit of time to do your own thing you have more to talk about.

I would be cross too OP, if I'd looked forward to a companiable night in and then was abandoned, twice in a row. Yanbu there.

So the fact that you haven't had a night out in 12 years was not a problem - why tell us it was?

You need to sit down and talk it out with your DH. Make a plan for what you are both prepared to do. If what you really want is affection (again) then agree to work on that, start simple such as a peck on the cheek before bed, before going to work make it a ritual and build from there. What does your DH need most? if you are prepared to woek on that then agree some small steps.

Agree to have a relationship talk once a week/fornightly whatever suits and review if you did do the agreed measures and build on that. You need to recoonect and start to have a bit of fun again. Tking a day or two off together during school time would give you a chance to go out to lunch, have a country walk and pub lunch together without the need for babysitters.

You need to be brave and question your DH, face your problems and work on them whilst you still can. Good luck

There's a real tone of Mummy Martyr coming from your posts, just get a sitter, have a night out, see if it helps the current situation.

skunkatanka We had a few children very close together and limited babysitting, we didn't go out together for years.

Pick the same night during the week where you will both sit down and have a 'fancy' meal together, we used to have Italian Wednesday's. We'd make everything ourselves, but it was just us two after the kids had gone to bed, every Wednesday. On a Friday we'd have a 'disco night', we bought swirly disco lights, got party nibbles and started this early with the kids, after they went to bed we'd slap on the 80's cheesy rubbish and get the wine out. Weekends we'd get out with the kids and absolutely knacker them out, we're fortunate to live closely to some stunning landscapes and a close drive to beaches, we own a tent so used that a lot so got quality time together at weekends.

Really, all it is about is making an effort with each other. That's it. I get you are both falling into a rut but you can see this now, you should both do something about it. Put 2 evenings a week aside to do something a bit special, it doesn't have to be much.

Good luck op, parenting is hard sometimes.

We could afford a babysitter but wouldn't feel comfortable leaving our kids with strangers and nor would they being left with them. It's just never been something we could consider.

Well, as Dr Phil used to say on telly, how's that working for you? It's time to take a step back and start considering. Not just this, but the whole situation. Your marriage is on the line.

Your children spend all day with "strangers" in school and nursery and they cope. Their carer doesn't have to be a stranger - you can ask carers from the nursery, or TAs from the school. Or you can find a regular agency sitter who wont be a stranger for long. When DS started school and at the time we couldn't get sitters (SN issues) DH and I sometimes took time off during the day to go to the cinema together. Staggering out of LotR at 2pm.

Something has to give. Both of you sound knackered and totally drained. If you both put everything into your jobs and kids, what's left for your own relationship? Does one of you need to cut your working hours to make space?

To be honest, I'm not bothered about going out. It's not the issue- if he's awake downstairs so we can have a chat, a glass of red etc I could totally live with that (and have for years

But maybe that's not working for him any more. Maybe that's not the kind of marriage he wants? What do you have in common now apart from the kids? One of the things our child psychologist advised us was that DH and I had to go out together, regularly, for the good of our marriage and therefore the good of DC.

You and you DH both sound unhappy. I hope you can find a way through this

You and DH don’t seem to be communicating. Talk to each other properly.

The whole situation sounds claustrophobic and stifling

He's just tired, I often have 2 hours sleep after work as I'm exhausted and my son has grown up and left home.

My husband and I are in a similar position - I have no parents, he has a very elderly mother so we too have no help. I’m also a teacher so appreciate the exhaustion and working late into the evening. We have 2 children and the youngest is undergoing ASD assessments. We have left them with sitters in the past but because I’m permanently exhausted I just want to be in bed by 9pm. Our son is a poor sleeper so tbh if we try to keep ourselves awake past this time we will pay for it the next day as we can be awake anytime from 4am!

I too worry what out life has become. Before children we weren’t massive social butterflies but we were travellers - every weekend, holiday we would be SOMEWHERE! Now I feel boring. Luckily I know our marriage is strong and DH tells me its a hard patch we’ll tough out, once the children become older hopefully we’ll be back to our travelling ways! In the meantime we do things like PP suggested - talk as soon as we get in before we fall asleep, Friday nights the kids have oven pizza and chips and we sit drinking wine and listening to indie tunes in the kitchen. We can’t go out so we take time to spend time together at home.

I do get jealous of friends who leave their children over night with grandparents and who go out (some even have been on a child free holiday!) but I have to remind myself this is the life I wanted and I only have 1 life and I can be the only person who can control my happiness.

It all sounds very stifling.

A healthy relationship means spending time together, time apart and time alone. How can you be happy when all you do is work, sleep and look after the children?

You say you're not bothered about going out, but staying in all the time clearly isn't working for your relationship. Your 12 year old is old enough to watch the 4yo for a while - can you not go out for a meal, or even for a quick drink once a week and leave her to babysit? Put the youngest to bed first and just leave the oldest in charge for a few hours.

What does your husband think about not going out - ever? It's not much of a life, is it? For either of you.

OP lots of people have asked why you don't go upstairs any lovingly wake him so that you can spend the evening together. Why haven't you answered? Instead you say you'll talk about it to him, but what do you expect him to change? If he's tired he will still fall asleep, just feel bad about it.

Op you talk about being older parents but i don't think this means you stop wanting or needing to go out and have some time for yourself as an individual or couple. I'm 43 and dh is 53, our parents are nearly all in their 80s and lot local. Dc are 5 and 7, eldest has ASD. It's a struggle but we make an effort to have evenings out with a friend babysitting, not often but several times a year. I go out once a week with friends. I feel this is the bare minimum to keep life fun and not get bored of each other!

Someone's already mentioned this, but the advantage of having a 12-year-old is that they're old enough to let you know if your youngest wasn't happy with the babysitter and even help out the sitter a bit if, for example, the little one is asking for a favourite toy, etc.

I do think that you're over-thinking this a bit, OP. Just talk to your DH and say that you miss spending time with him. Between you, you'll come up with a solution.

BTW, both DH and I frequently used to fall asleep on our DC's bed when they were little, because they'd want us to lie down beside them and it was warm and comfortable! We were mid-30s, so it may not be age or health-related, just simple tiredness.

I think the not going out thing is a red herring here. It’s the lack of affection and attention that’s the problem - that’s what you have to discuss.

It’s perfectly possible to have a loving, affectionate and fun marriage with kids and not going out every week. Granted, the exhaustion from juggling full time jobs and family is not easy, but it will get better. Talk to him about it.

I used to fall asleep with my DS for a couple about 4 years after sometimes while reading stories. DS loved being cuddled to sleep and I was tired, (plus felt guilt as full time working parent, silly I know). DP got used to it, and he has an absorbing hobby gaming so didn't really care.