To think this will destroy our marriage

[skunkatanka]

Feeling pretty low at the moment. We've been married for nearly 20 years and have two children, youngest is 4. We don't have much support around us- we are older parents and so have older still grandparents who are not in a position to give us time off. As such we haven't had a night out as a couple for 12 years- no exaggeration.

We haven't stressed about this though and have just made the most of evenings when the kids are in bed. However, recently more and more every time he puts our daughter to bed he falls asleep on her floor and doesn't appear downstairs until late when any hope of an evening together has gone. He's done this the last two nights and hasn't emerged yet tonight (he's done a few bedtimes in a row for various reasons). This seems to have become his routine. I have mentioned it to him but it continues.

Added to this, he shows me no affection whatsoever. Never says he loves me, never touches me in any way- to hold my hand or even give me a peck on the cheek before I go to work. We haven't had sex since well before Christmas.
He's a great dad who dotes on the kids and a good husband in the sense that he'll cook meals and do his bit around the house etc. I just feel that we've become friends only and even that is questionable given that we now spend so little time together.

We're in our 40s and I feel so lonely. It would destroy our children to break up the home in which they are loved. We don't argue etc, there's no animosity and it would be a huge shock to everyone if we split up. I also don't want to be a part time parent- sharing Christmas etc etc. I know many do it but I just couldn't face that.

How do I fix this MNetters? Can I fix it?
Sorry for ramble. It's good to get it off my chest.

Presumably your oldest is 12, can't they look after the youngest for a couple of hours?

Well you've said it yourself, you're both older working parents so you must have anticipated how especially tiring and difficult life would be.

Grandparents of any age shouldn't be expected to give you free time either, though great if they are able and willing to do so.

You need to talk to your husband about how you're feeling - I'm surprised you're considering splitting up your family/staying lonely in a marriage over this. It sounds like it can be fixed.

Why don't you do bedtime every night for a bit?

That seems like it would completely solve your main issue of having an evening without him falling asleep. Not forever, just the next few weeks.

Bedtime with my 4yo takes about 10 mins, or even 5 mins if we cba and read a short book (god love Each Peach Pear Plum for providing a super fast bedtime story).

You do it and you're both downstairs within 15 mins. Why wouldn't you?

Don't get the sitter to put the children to bed - the first time you use a sitter just go out for a couple of hours after youngest child is asleep.

And then build up to them putting them to bed but to be honest for many years I went out after they were asleep.

It takes effort on both parts. You need to ask him if he wants to put the effort in, by explaining what you've explained to us and how it's affecting you.

Simple and silly suggestions would be to get a meal deal from M&S and have a cosy, no effort meal together.

Do you like games? A games night (cards, poker, a board game) would mix things up and provide some entertainment.

Could you have friends round one evening? Dress up a bit and have cocktails on the odd Friday?

You an have fun without going out out, but you both need to make it happen.

We do all of that and in the nights where it's a Tuesday and we're knackered we might open a bag of sharing crisp and some dip and sit an watch a box set together. Other weeknights we might just do our chores and fall into bed early-bug that's ok because boring nights are countered by the fun nights.

Having things to look forward to are key. The more fun time you spend together the more affection is likely and the more you like each other.

I am perplexed as to why you thought, after 8 years of not going out and having zero childcare options, you thought having a baby would be a great idea.

What did you think would happen?

You won't consider hiring a sitter and have nobody to help with childcare, so you're stuck really.

I used to fall asleep when I took DD up to bed. I can't understand why this would destroy your marriage?

I think you are being rather melodramatic here.

In a couple of years when your 12yo is older, you will be able to let them look after the younger child and can start having a life again.

You've done it for 12 years. So I'm sure a couple more will be doable.

You state that you are happy not to go out to socialise in the evenings - is this the same for your DH? How do you know this for sure? He may be depressed.

We do 50:50 usually but if I have work to do in the evenings he does bedtime so I can get a head start and not still be working at 10pm if I can avoid it. I could do all the bedtimes and then come down and do my marking/planning etc and we still wouldn't get much of an evening together. This is probably what I'll have to do though. It's longer than 15 mins though as she reads to us too in this time.

You are stuck in a rut, op.
I would be bored too.
You only get one life. Make it a good one for the pair of you (and your kids)

You have had loads of really good practical suggestions... what about the teenage daughter of a colleague for babysitting.

I'd like to add that splitting up wouldnt destroy your chikdren. They would cope. But i think youre absolutely right to start taking steps to turn things around and avoid this x

positive my children are more important to me than nights out and honestly at no point in our decision making re a second child did we factor in nights out! As I say, we don't care about going out. We were never ones for a huge social life even before children and as older parents we had plenty of opportunity to be had we wanted before they were born.

It's not going out that is the issue. It's having time together. And the occasional cuddle etc that I feel is lacking.

I probably am being melodramatic in the cold light of day. I posted this last night after Friday and Saturday nights alone while he snored upstairs. That, on top of the absolute non-existence of any affection- verbal or physical, just got on top of me.

Hi OP
You need to get a babysitter. Try a website like childcare.co.uk or ask for a recommendation from friends. Invite them round and see how you get along. We are older, have no parental support and our babysitter has been a complete lifeline. Going out a couple of times a month helps improve communication and togetherness.

I find your refusal to trust even a well qualified and vetted babysitter from an agency, for a few hours, and when one of your children is 12, bizarre and worrying. Your 4 year old won't even be alone with them.
I hope your DH is at least getting plenty of evenings out with his friends, doing sport, or whatever. If not, then why not?

I totally agree that we're stuck in a dull and monotonous rut that we need to take action to resolve. I think this needs to start, as lots of you have said, with a conversation which I will try do soon, should he stay awake long enough!

I don't want us to split up. Things are not that bad but if things don't change they will be.

Yes but that time together and cuddles you mention only come from the intimacy of spending one on one time together. It needs to be cultivated - marriages require work. You can’t just expect it if you won’t consider spending time alone with him - a dinner out/cinema trip/shared experiences that will bond you. You really need to rethink the babysitter thing - it’s a completely normal part of having children - and a small start in relinquishing full control over them that will happen eventually.

I hope your DH is at least getting plenty of evenings out with his friends, doing sport, or whatever. If not, then why not?

Why are you concerned about this for him and not both of us?

We were very cynical about using babysitters and I was adamant that I would never leave our children with a stranger. Friends, of ours, though used Sitters and were really positive. We eventually sort of had to go somewhere so tentatively booked with them. The lady who came worked as a Nanny during the week, and had her own children. We booked her very early so we all get to k ow her, and she was straight down in the floor with the children, and the warmed to her straight away. As we really liked her, we now always book very early and she pretty much always picks up the jobs with us.

If you really are uncomfortable with a complete stranger, is there a friend, neighbour or colleague who might like to earn a bit of extra money. If you little one goes to nursery, one of the staff might babysit.

Going out has made a big difference to our relationship and is worth every penny.

Here my oldest child is 12. We certainly don't have "full control" over her life by any stretch of the imagination.

So some evenings you work until 9ish or 10? On those evenings he does the bedtime, and then you could plan for him to sleep whilst you work.

We were in a similar situation to you when ours were small - our 4yo struggled with babysitters, though we eventually found some. Before that, however, I was the one falling asleep at 8pm, until a friend pointed out that it is a brilliant thing to do, planned, once or twice a week. Kids in bed, nice relaxing bath and asleep myself by 8.30 - I enjoyed the rest of the week so much more!

Second handy hint, we kept an IOU book. We wanted to go to the cinema, but the babysitter fell through - put it in the IOU book, to be cashed in another time. Want an evening in with a bottle of wine, but dh falls asleep - note it in the IOU book, to be cashed in another time. (I started it in pregnancy. Everyone else eating prawns/soft cheese/drinking wine today. I owe me a large dish of prawns . . .)

I struggled too with the lack of couple time during the gruelling years. We concentrated on having fun during the days, en famille, and just battled through. Now our two are older and flying the nest, I am pleased to report that it hasn't destroyed our marriage and we are now having fun catching up on all of the date nights we are owed. However, I do know people who drifted apart during this stage.

Keep talking to your dh. Recognise his feelings - "You are so tired, aren't you?" but also articulate your own "It would be nice if we could sit down and watch X with a bottle of wine, wouldn't it? Shall we aim to do that on Saturday?"

My DH always falls to sleep when he takes DS to bed. I have the monitor on so that I can hear/tell DS is asleep after half an hour then go get my DH up. Is he refusing to wake up if you go get him, or are you just leaving him there to fall into a deep sleep? (I do this on a Sunday night sometimes if I want to watch TV shows he doesn't like 😂)

As much as I agree that going out isn't equally important for everyone, you do seem remarkably sure that your husband is on the same page as you on this. Will you at least put it on the agenda for your chat?

I know others use babysitters, but I have never used one. It never ocurred to me, then again when mine were young going out was the last thing on my mind, was happy enough to even get them in bed at a decent time and then have the evening to myself.

I think making the jump from dh falling asleep on the floor to going out for the night at this stage is maybe a bit much. I would concentrate on the middle ground which is time together at home, starting with a chat. Put the kids to bed yourself if you can manage it and tell him how you feel, specifically so he knows the problem. Ask how he feels, he may feel the same. Doesnt sound like too much of a problem tbh, he sounds decent and you have a lot to save.

Of you’re not comfortable with evening babysitters could you book the kids into holiday clubs or activities and then get your DH to take some annual leave and have some time then. You’re in a really fortunate position being able to cover holidays as a teacher so won’t have as much pressure on annual leave as most parents.

A few questions:

-Do you get time out with your chums?
-Does he get time out with his?
-Did your youngest go to nursery & if so can you ask one of his former carers to babysit?
-Do you ever do any activities as a family? Like go for a run out in the car to the beach at the weekend or something?
-If you could have one day where you know the children would be taken care of and safe what would you want to do with DH?

I ask because you sound resentful to DH. This could come from your own resentment about being out of the game a bit because of your op; maybe not.

But I bet my bottom dollar withs bit of you and him time outside the usual wine + telly of an evening you’d find each other again. If you want to x

Re TAs etc who might be interested in helping- I am a secondary teacher some distance from where I live. We don't have many TAs these days in secondary and if we did, they all live far from us.

So what about TAs or assistants from the school or nursery your 4 year old attends? You haven't answered why you'e comfortable with them being with strangers during the day but not the evenings.

To be honest, I'm not bothered about going out

But if getting a babysitter and going out is the way to reconnect, why wouldn't you give it a try?