To think this will destroy our marriage

[skunkatanka]

Feeling pretty low at the moment. We've been married for nearly 20 years and have two children, youngest is 4. We don't have much support around us- we are older parents and so have older still grandparents who are not in a position to give us time off. As such we haven't had a night out as a couple for 12 years- no exaggeration.

We haven't stressed about this though and have just made the most of evenings when the kids are in bed. However, recently more and more every time he puts our daughter to bed he falls asleep on her floor and doesn't appear downstairs until late when any hope of an evening together has gone. He's done this the last two nights and hasn't emerged yet tonight (he's done a few bedtimes in a row for various reasons). This seems to have become his routine. I have mentioned it to him but it continues.

Added to this, he shows me no affection whatsoever. Never says he loves me, never touches me in any way- to hold my hand or even give me a peck on the cheek before I go to work. We haven't had sex since well before Christmas.
He's a great dad who dotes on the kids and a good husband in the sense that he'll cook meals and do his bit around the house etc. I just feel that we've become friends only and even that is questionable given that we now spend so little time together.

We're in our 40s and I feel so lonely. It would destroy our children to break up the home in which they are loved. We don't argue etc, there's no animosity and it would be a huge shock to everyone if we split up. I also don't want to be a part time parent- sharing Christmas etc etc. I know many do it but I just couldn't face that.

How do I fix this MNetters? Can I fix it?
Sorry for ramble. It's good to get it off my chest.

You need to find a babysitter. There is no other option. Surely you have a friend who would do it.

I’m curious to know more about your 12 year old if you don’t like leaving them with ‘strangers’. Surely they mingle with strangers on a daily basis, on buses, shopping etc, or don’t they go out on their own/with friends?

I wouldn’t use hires babysitters either, OP. It’s not shit parenting, what a bizarre comment. I’m lucky to have family support to babysit though, so I can go out with my husband.

However, in our marriage I am the exhausted one and I am falling asleep around 8pm most nights. I am shattered and have been for years. I feel that my thirties is going to be a fog when I look back on them because long hours, a stressful job and small children mean I am drowning in fatigue all the time. We went on a super luxurious all inclusive holiday last year and I could not keep my eyes open in the evenings - I was fast asleep before 10pm and so frustrated with myself that I could have been sitting out on the balcony with my husband, talking and listening to the sea - but staying awake is a battle.

I’ve been to the doctors and had blood tests and been told everything is normal. I’ve joined a gym and am exercising four days a week now in the hope that this will energise me - but I’m even more tired from working out and waking up with sore muscles. So I really sympathise with your husband and I really sympathise with you because I know it’s frustrating. I’d also mention that having a lie-in makes me so much more tired! I can’t get going at all in the day if I stay in bed past 7am.

For me, I am hoping that things will change as my children get older. My youngest is also four years old and very non-stop. He’s a bad sleeper too. I feel like this is a period of our lives when stress from work and the relentlessness of having young children combine to create total exhaustion and I need to be as kind to myself, my family and my body as I can be and have faith that things will improve. I hate feeling like I’m wishing my children’s childhood away and I made sure that I enjoy as much of it as I can. But at the same time, I know that when they are more independent that I will be able to recover some of my energy (I hope). In the meantime, I am desperately trying to change jobs (also a teacher) and I am requesting to go more part time that I already am. Are there any similar changes that you could make in your lives?

Is one night, i.e. possibly 4 hours or so with a “stranger” not worth it to save your marriage? Like others have said, have this person over for a couple of trials then they won’t be a stranger.

Really not understanding why you seem annoyed with him for falling asleep.

I often do it too, it's not a choice, I'm just tired after a long day at work and childcare. Difference is in my case one of 2 things happen my husband either leaves me to catch up on sleep (with no resentment) or gently wakes me, I thank him and we carry on our evening. No drama.

Also it's hard to "have a lie in" if you naturally wake at a certain time. I love sleeping in, but have to get up v early before work and find that if I keep to a routine getting up early on the days I need to is easier. If I force myself to stay in bed the quality of sleep isn't great and it messes with my getting up for work. Similarly the quality of my sleep with DC isnt great (even though I'm in bed with them not on the floor) so if I'm left I need more sleep than I would in my own bed iyswim.

Also agree with the suggestion for sitters. Yes, it's great that you don't need childcare, but you do need some quality time together when neither of you are knackered!

OP, I am surprised you think 12 is too young. Many 12 year olds were latchkey kids and started dinner when they got home from school, only a couple of decades ago. Many 12 year olds babysit. I think we aren't doing our children any favours if we coddle them and treat them as helpless. 12 is definitely old enough to be taking on responsibilities. That is why children/teens these days are helpless. They aren't taught responsibility. I really don't understand how you can possibly think a sensible 12 year old, basically a high schooler, isn't old enough to look after their sibling for even 3 hours.

In the kindest way, the whole "i won't leave my kids" could be the end of your marriage and it's a bit martyr-ish being honest. You're not doing your kids any favours if they aren't used to being left with anyone, trust me.

Either use an agency as others have suggested, or get together with your school mums and create a babysitting circle. We live rurally and had one with ours, it was a lifesaver to those who had no local family. You sat and earned a credit, no sits past 11pm, and one mum held the diary for a month so everyone did their bit. It was a great way of getting to know others. And I bet there are a lot of others at your kids schools with exactly the same issues..........

There are answers, but you need to be the one to find them . And get your DH to get his bloods done, it isn't reasonable to fall asleep at that time.

So how long has the no affection gone on for?What happens if you go to hug him for example because if he's up before you and the kids are awake,sleeping instead of spending the evening with you then it sounds as if he's mentally detaching.
You need to talk.
You are also showing your 12 year old that all this is normal.Its not.

I've read elsewhere on other blogs people say that sometimes parents need to actually put their marriage first and their children second. Because if you break up because your life centres around the kids, that won't do the kids any good. That sometimes you need to prioritise yourself and your spouse. If your marriage collapses, your family collapses. Keeping the marriage together is very important. Marriages do need to be prioritied at occasionally.

It’s not easy keeping close as a couple once the little ones arrive. You sound very devoted parents, but you need time for each other too.

A PP made a good suggestion if no family or friends are available to give you both a break, hiring a sitter and staying at home having a meal together to talk about anything other than the children and gradually build up trust in the sitter.

DH & I had our children very close together, MIL looked after them one night a week for years so we could get out of the house for a while. It helped keep us sane and close as a couple.

It can be fixed OP. Wishing you luck with the changes you need to make, it’s all too easy to get into a rut.

Fgs we all fall asleep when putting the kids to bed... they are warm and cuddly and it’s the most comfy place to be! Why don’t you just go and wake him up?

I could have written your post a few years ago.
Op, it will get so much easier as your children grow up and become independent.
Due to my line of work I found it hard leaving my dc with strangers, and we have no family support either.
We did eventually find someone that we trusted a one hundred per cent, and started going out and this was really good for us. If not strange at the beginning!

Would you consider having friends over for dinner, asking them to babysit and you can return the favour?

Also book the day off, drop the kids off at nursery and go out for lunch. Or for a day our, something fun and frivolous. You need to inject some fun back into your lives.

My dh and I often fall asleep that is working too hard, and being older parents for you!

I understand why you don’t want to leave your dc, but the sheer monotony and boredom of the slog of child rearing can sap even the most committed parents vitality.

By making time for you and dh you are helping your dc by ensuring their family is happy and connected.

This evening, shave your legs, pour some wine and tell your dh to get the dc in to bed pronto and then spend some time maybe with candles lit, make a plan. Cherish him abit and you may see that he does the same back 🙏🏻

Think about the example you are setting your children of what a marriage looks like.
Try and talk to your husband about how you feel, but start with letting him know you are concerned about his tiredness and asking him how you can help.
In this kind of situation, where there are 2 people just drifting apart, thinking about the other person rather than yourself can get better results

Today 08:40 CaptainBrickbeard

I wouldn’t use hires babysitters either, OP. It’s not shit parenting, what a bizarre comment

Spectacular misquote. No one said not using babysitters is shit parenting. People have quite rightly said that considering splitting from the father of your children when you know one of the pressure points is not having been out in the evening for 12 years, yet refusing to consider a babysitter is poor parenting.

I agree, instead of focusing on the horrible rejected feeling, focus on the other person, and on your relationship with yourself. Be nice to both of you.

I regularly fall asleep when putting the kids to bed. So does DH. We both work FT. Have a 7 and a 2 year old. Once they are in bed I drag myself awake, finish all the chores and setting up for the next day. And then we both crash. That’s pretty standard. Chinese takeaway and TV is a special night.
I like the idea of a 20 min catch up when you walk through the door. Although that’s when the kids are craving attention the most to be honest so it’s easier said than done.
We don’t use babysitters but we have one person who teaches in the preschool my toddler now goes to who has babysat for us and we did some trial runs first and then went out. Never ever being able to go out makes it very suffocating.
You seem determined to blame DP for everything. He seemingly works hard, does his share in the house as he should (not giving him a medal for that), and is a tired man at the end of the day. This all sounds like pretty much par for the course.

I think there are so many mums here who fall asleep with their kids and just don’t have the energy for sex. It doesn’t mean they don’t want it but after work, kids, chores, it is hard to find that energy for that one more thing. I know I have been there a few times. I would hate to think we were on the verge of divorce because of it.

We could afford a babysitter but wouldn't feel comfortable leaving our kids with strangers and nor would they being left with them. It's just never been something we could consider

The irony of it

I am a teacher so taking annual leave to give us days out isn't a an option. We have never had to use childcare for school holidays because I get them off.

Yet millions of parents leave their children with strangers, teacher, TAs, an support staff daily. All of whom are DBS checked, just like your self.

As a teacher you do broadly get 13 weeks holiday a year - I appreciate some work is done in that time, but you still have lot more wriggle room than the rest of us.

TBH if I were your DH, picking up 50% of the chores, with a spouse on short hours and triple my holiday, I'd be bloody exhausted and sleeping on the floor too. Not everyone's body clock is configured to having a lay in; oversleeping is also detrimental to health.

People have given you the solution to what you perceive the problem to be - no quality time - but you reject it. Which really means you like having the problem, it allows you wallow in martyrdom. Your problem is a lot deeper, you don't value your DH is putting in more than 50% with far longer hours and less time off work, caring for you and dealing with the children. He actually sounds like a really decent, lovely bloke.

It always amazes me how harsh some people are on here! @skunkatanka could you try setting up play dates during the day? Even if both DCs are with different friends it would mean some time for you and DH to have day date? Go and do something fun, talk? It sounds like you need an open and honest conversation. Not to accuse him of not being affectionate but to highlight that you miss that part of your relationship and that you should both make a real effort to bring it back?

Hope you manage to find a way to move things forward x

I did say I'm not considering splitting up. I don't want to. My OP made that very clear. I'm just finding things a bit miserable currently.

Re TAs etc who might be interested in helping- I am a secondary teacher some distance from where I live. We don't have many TAs these days in secondary and if we did, they all live far from us. My husband does the school run for the youngest as his job is far more flexible than mine and his days are shorter. He works near to home, his job is less pressured and he never has work to do in the evenings.

My children are both entirely well balanced, outgoing people who are very confident. However there is a world of difference between being confident around others and being happy at bedtime with a stranger when you're 4.

To be honest, I'm not bothered about going out. It's not the issue- if he's awake downstairs so we can have a chat, a glass of red etc I could totally live with that (and have for years). We don't have to go out to be together but we do both need to be awake and to care enough about our relationship to be awake!

That's really fucking harsh. I am not a teacher but it's well known they work long hours, and you only have to read Mumsnet in the holidays to see not everyone finds full time childcare for 6 weeks at a time that much of a rest either. You have very limited information to judge whether her DH is a decent bloke or not.

He is a decent, lovely bloke as I said in my OP but his hours are not longer than mine by a long chalk.

Short hours in teaching! Lol

Op How did you manage to leave your children at nursery school etc - surely they were all strangers?

We never had family help but did babysitting swaps with friends and then I hired a friend who was doing it in the evening as a job.

Also try and re think your 4 yr olds bedtime routine - why is your dh lying on the floor? Will they not be left before they sleep?

Also could you spend some time together in the school holidays? The kids could a one day holiday club/ course - or the 12 year old could be home alone.

OP it does sound slightly like you are refusing to shoulder any of the responsibility or blame. You're very defensive. There are solutions to pretty much ALL these issues. Nowhere have you mentioned being proactive with arranging a night out, or even a nice night in after the kids are in bed. Make plans, tell him you need more couple time with him. Don't sit back and wait for him to do all the work and then moan because he is obviously stuck in the same rut as you are.

Wow, sorry but you are being massively unreasonable. You sound like a judgemental martyr and your whole set up sounds claustrophobic with all this talk about ‘strangers’. Do you genuinely think you won’t have to really on ‘strangers’ if you get divorced or are you planning to remain living in the house with your ex after you split up to prevent CRB checked women from spending 1hour with your 12 old child at after school club?

There’s no mention of friends. Do you not have any mummy friends with kids same age as one of yours who will agree to reciprocated babysitting? Or do they fall into the ‘strangers’ camp? Are there no TA’s willing to make a few extra quid in the evening?

I think it’s appalling that you’d actually end your marriage before you’d allow someone to watch your kids so you could have a meal out with your DH. Martyr behaviour at its finest.

Your DH probably goes to sleep on the floor because he’s bored shitless after 12 years staying indoors. I find I get tired when I’m bored.