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Original poster

Man sues clinic for performing abortion on his girlfriend without his consent

649 replies

amusedbush · 08/03/2019 13:07

metro.co.uk/2019/03/07/boy-19-sues-abortion-clinic-giving-ex-termination-wishes-8855393/

I don't even know what to say to this. I made the mistake of reading some of the comments about it on Facebook too.

Surely this can't stand up in court?

OP posts:
blueskiesovertheforest · 09/03/2019 16:01

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter indeed (though it only took a few minutes to Google them as a procrastination technique, I've been skim reading texts --and procrastinating - since before today's 19 year olds were born...)

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 09/03/2019 16:04

You're entitled to your opinion as are we but I stand by what I said: if you think a man should be allowed to force a woman to be pregnant against her will then either you don't understand biology or you're misogynistic. Unless there's a third option I'm missing?

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 09/03/2019 16:06

That was to thunderstorm

Xenia · 09/03/2019 16:08

If you think life begins at conception it's pretty easy to understand that point of view shared by many although in the UK only by a minority.

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:10

if you think a man should be allowed to force a woman to be pregnant against her will then either you don't understand biology or you're misogynistic.

But that’s not what I’ve been saying. That's what people have decided to hear.

Ultimately, I believe we should be able to open up conversations and debate about this to see if, under certain circumstances, other options are available.

Yes, I feel sorry for men who want to keep a baby that their partner aborts. I make no apologies for that.

There are too many different scenarios (shades of grey) to be able to give a difinitive answer for every scenario. That’s why it needs to be talked about. Without silly insults being hurled around.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 09/03/2019 16:11

Ultimately, I believe we should be able to open up conversations and debate about this to see if, under certain circumstances, other options are available.

Like?

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 09/03/2019 16:13

I cannot think of a single instance where forcing a woman to carry on with carrying to term and childbirth is ok/not abusive.

pallisers · 09/03/2019 16:17

This is EXACTLY the conversation they would need to have. This is what they would need to discuss and agree on. I would expect legally binding documents to be drawn up and signed. I’m sure if you use your imagination, you can think of options, too.

You seem to think that you have invented the concept of a couple talking to each other.

I'm sure there are plenty of couples where they do have this discussion. Where the woman says I want to terminate and he says look can you just consider it a bit more because I think we could manage a baby and they have a discussion. Do you really think this doesn't happen?

The point here is if the woman does decide she will terminate - discussions or no discussions - then any attempt to make her continue the pregnancy is a gross violation of her bodily integrity. So at that point things do become black and white - either he "wins" and can make her stay pregnant and deliver or she "wins" and can terminate her pregancy. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to live in a country where birth was forced on unwilling women. Take a look at what happens in El Salvador and other places. You wouldn't find being a woman half as easy as you claim you do if you lived there.

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:18

Like the woman who is not ready to have a baby and the responsibility that follows, but who would be happy to keep and give birth to the baby and let the man bring it up (presumably no longer a partner).

I can see scenarios where, as long as they were able to draw up legal protections for her to save her being left with the baby, some women would be happy with this.

The man keeps his child, the woman absolves herself of responsibility. The law backs them both up.

I have NEVER said anything about forcing anyone to do anything.

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:19

Except, even on this thread, the pressure to abort is strong. Forcing women to abort is just as bad as forcing women to keep the baby.

NotACleverName · 09/03/2019 16:20

I would expect legally binding documents to be drawn up and signed. I’m sure if you use your imagination, you can think of options, too.

Are you really expecting teenagers, because let’s not forget that’s who we’re talking about here (one of whom, I feel it needs reiterating, was 16 years old at the time) to consider something like that?

I doubt it’s something that most adults would consider.

There are no shades of grey here. Men do not get to have a say over what happens to a woman’s body. Fin. Period. The end. If they don’t like it? Tough shit. Biology isn’t fair like that.

pallisers · 09/03/2019 16:20

If women want control over their cells, they should think before allowing someone to ejaculate inside them. It works both ways.

Actually you said this. Maybe you struggle to express yourself because if you didn't mean that women lose control over their bodies if a man ejaculates inside them, maybe have another go at the sentence.

If all you are saying is sometimes couples could discuss whether or not to terminate - well duh. What this has to do with a man being able to sue a woman for terminating a pregnancy is beyond me though.

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:20

You seem to think that you have invented the concept of a couple talking to each other.

Confused Hmm

LunafortJest · 09/03/2019 16:20

Under what circumstances do you believe it should be legally possible to enact forced Incubatorial Slavery? Because that is what we are talking about. Women have babies and give them up for adoption all the time or leave them to the father to raise. That's legal and there is nothing wrong with that.

However what you are suggesting is that it is possible for a female human being to be FORCED to risk her life and health to give a man a baby. That, is what this topic is about. That is what you are suggesting. Not agreed to surrogacy. Not agreed to adoption. But forced Gestational Slavery.

What possible 'other options', other than consent vs slavery, is possible?

Sheogorath · 09/03/2019 16:21

But the girl in this scenario clearly wasn't happy to give birth, because she had an abortion.

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:21

Are you really expecting teenagers, because let’s not forget that’s who we’re talking about here (one of whom, I feel it needs reiterating, was 16 years old at the time) to consider something like that?

I’m talking to anyone of any age who this applies to.

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:21

Referring to, not talking to

NotACleverName · 09/03/2019 16:22

The woman may be able to “absolve herself of responsibility” with these hypothetical contracts, but they’re only a solution to unwanted parenting.

Not unwanted pregnancy which is the issue at heart here.

LunafortJest · 09/03/2019 16:23

"Like the woman who is not ready to have a baby and the responsibility that follows, but who would be happy to keep and give birth to the baby and let the man bring it up (presumably no longer a partner). "

That concept already exists.

It has for centuries.

It's called adoption.

This thread is about FORCED births. Adoption is so completely and utterly different, it is unrelated. The topic is about a woman FORCED to give birth.

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:23

But the girl in this scenario clearly wasn't happy to give birth, because she had an abortion.

How do you know that? Do you know her personally? Someone on this thread has already said they’d be pushing their 16 year old to abort.

How do you know they didn’t want it, but then the girl was pressurised to abort ?

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:25

Actually you said this. Maybe you struggle to express yourself because if you didn't mean that women lose control over their bodies if a man ejaculates inside them, maybe have another go at the sentence

RTFT

I quoted another poster and changed the wording (openly) to sow the alternative viewpoint.

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:25

Show

blueskiesovertheforest · 09/03/2019 16:25

In some American states children (girls) can marry at any age whatsoever if they are pregnant and marrying the father of their child. Not, interestingly, in Alabama any more, though until 2003 14 year olds could marry.
Which means that sometimes, in some states of the USA, little girls as young as 10 are married off to adult rapists. So yes, as Xenia says the dominant mindset (as reflected in law) in some US states is clearly very different to the dominant mindset in England, Scotland and Wales...

Thefact that some people are of the opinion that this is fine shouldn't mean there are shades of grey about forced pregnancy or child marriage in the minds of anyone with the best interests of women and girl and children of either sex in mind though!

ThunderStorms · 09/03/2019 16:27

🙄 Here we go again.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 09/03/2019 16:28

The article states her family supported her chouce whatever she chose. No forcing there.