AIBU or is this a MAJOR safeguarding issue?

[Whatthefudgeisthis]

NC for this,

I’ve been absolutely stunned at the ignorance shown by the organisers with this one! A naturist night at the water park 😱 this place is designed for kids entertainment, it’s basically loads of water slides a wave pool and play area etc
Who in their right mind would take a child to such an event. Obviously I’m not shooting down naturists, each to their own, but this is an event that ANYONE can attend. Known paedophiles have attended these events, with one saying that he can’t even swim. What the actual fuck is going on? Who thought this one up?
If adults want to swim naked that’s their call, but why open the event to children too?

I’m pretty sure I’m not the one missing the blindingly obvious here, but I’m so amazed at the stupidity I had to share and maybe raise some awareness.

www.stokesentinel.co.uk/whats-on/family-nude-swimming-session-coming-2589946

These events are being held across the country, so there’s possibly one near you.

RockFlintstone said: " Urgh, stop referring to having boundaries around who sees your naked body as 'prudery'."

Here's the Webster online definition of 'prudery': " the behaviour or thinking of people who are too easily shocked or offended". I think that sums it up in a way apposite to this debate.

you're completely ignoring what people who know what they are talking about have said about safeguards at nudist activities

The only people I’ve seen on this thread who know anything about safeguarding are the other “prudes”.

Two of the hurdles paedophiles work hard at overcoming-

*Getting children to accept seeing them naked

• Getting the children to become naked

And no, that’s not an obsession with nudity, it’s concern that the boundaries are being blurred/ dismantled and the effect that has on the child.

Ordinarydad, if your children and grandchildren told you they didn't want to be naturists anymore because they were starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it, would you call them prudes?

" Ordinarydad, if your children and grandchildren told you they didn't want to be naturists anymore because they were starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it, would you call them prudes? "

My children are now grown up, but if it had happened when they were minors, I would have discussed it with them, and if it was sure that is what they really wanted and were not under any undue pressure, I would let them do/not do what they wanted.
Regarding my grand children, I would be happy to discuss it with them &/or their parents, but any decision would have to be that of the parents, except in the case of one grandchild who is now over 18 and makes his own decisions.
I don't know if the term 'prude' would be used in the conversations, but I could not rule it out as I think it a useful short word for describing a condition of mind, it is not an insult and I have not used the term as an insult in this discussion.

Seeing as British naturism states prudery to be child abuse, then I’m kind if given to think it is being used as an insult.

FissionChip5 said " And no, that’s not an obsession with nudity, it’s concern that the boundaries are being blurred/ dismantled and the effect that has on the child. "

The boundaries in all sorts of matters are set by the parents of young children, who later in life get the chance/right to review their parents' views and develop views of their own. The exception to that principle is where there is harm or the threat of harm to the child.
In the matter of nudity, where is the harm in a child being seen by others? You clearly do not like the idea, but you do not say why, you simply seem to assume that it is one of the 'givens' of life. This is not so for many people. To a naturist, there is no real difference in seeing or being seen naked or clothed. Or do you object to children being seen clothed also?
The prevention of harm to the child is primarily (and rightly) the responsibility of the parents. Children are not allowed at naturist events unless they are accompanied by a responsible adult (usually parents or grandparents). This is backed up by general child protection measures which are at least as strong as those operated by events where people are clothed.
It seems all your objections are to the nudity, not the child protection aspects; but you deny this and maintain the principle that nudity is just simply wrong ( a view you assert but do not justify) - and on that point I do not agree with you, and neither do many many millions of ordinary people around the world.

FissionChip5 said "Seeing as British naturism states prudery to be child abuse, then I’m kind if given to think it is being used as an insult."

I do not speak for BN. You would have to take that up with them. However, I note that you have classed nudity as child abuse - isn't that an insult?

You'd 'let' them?

'let'

That's a very interesting choice of word there.

You know, my abuser didn't rule out calling me a prude. Infact they did. I cannot fathom anyone using this term as anything other than to try and shame someone else into disregarding their own discomfort.

In the matter of nudity, where is the harm in a child being seen by others?

Do you feel the same about photographs of them? That there’s no harm as it’s just looking?

most children are groomed by their parents into thinking that there is something shameful about their bodies. They don't even realise this is learned behaviour, not any kind of objective reality. It is one of the reasons why so many young women don't go for cervical smears nowadays - they were brainwashed as children into thinking that 'down there' is only for sex. The fixation with prudery and sex are very closely related.

🙄 really????? That’s the road you’re going down???

If that was the case hardly anyone would go for a smear as we’ve all been children at some point and learned that we need to cover up and the human race would be fast approaching extinction because god forbid we had to strip from the waist down for childbirth not to mention the examinations etc, we wouldn’t breastfeed, we’d basically be fucked as a species.

My children aren’t taught that nudity is wrong and their bodies are something to be ashamed of. They walk in on me having a bath, they’ve seen me breastfeed, I can’t even remember when I managed to get dressed without one of them walking in, and I’m the same with them.
What they are taught is there are a LOT of people who will abuse them given the opportunity. Until they are old enough to give consent, I make the decisions regarding their safety. This is not me being a prude, this is me being a good parent. I don’t allow my children to be naked around strangers, not because I’m ashamed of their bodies, or my own, it’s because I don’t trust others.
Unfortunately this is the reality of the world we live in. Call me a prude all you like, I’ll take the insults, but you’re coming across as someone who sees fit to insult others for putting the needs of children before the wants of adults.

I’m pretty sure people attending these events put their valuables in a locker before going for a swim? Lock their car doors before they go in? Why? Because they can’t 100% guarantee that the people they’re mixing with are trustworthy. I’d sooner lose my car than put my children at risk.

I note that you have classed nudity as child abuse

Have I? where?

If naturism were such a safeguarding risk, do you imagine that their organised events would be allowed to continue, FissionChips?

Ordinarydad your incessant use of the word “prude” is tedious and disturbing. This seems to be your way of deflecting from the issue of child protection. You then seem to try and use reverse psychology in its most basic form by saying that “prudes” don’t care about protecting children, they simply have a problem with nudity in general.
Naturism events would be the perfect place for paedophiles to be able to take photographs of naked children - that is the enhanced risk...unless you’re saying this is not a form of child abuse??

If someone gets a kick out of looking, it may seem a bit sick, but so long as they do nothing about it, there is no harm done and it is not illegal

Repulsive.

@unspiritualhome can you provide more info about safeguarding at these events, is there a document which has been approved by the NSPCC about the swimming pool events and similar which you can link?

It is possible that it isn't so much that the events are allowed to continue, it is more that they have somehow slipped under the radar or not been given the right consideration.

itwasntpreeclampsia

www.nakedswim.co.uk/resources/BN-Child-Safeguarding-Policy.pdf

It’s seems a standard policy to me, few points I did notice were

The unique nature of the organisation makes BN especially vulnerable to infiltration by people with a sexual interest in children and BN realises that potential abusers may deliberately target children through its events and activities

Follow the recommended adult to children ratios for meetings and activities

Which again, makes me question who is counting the number of single adults (from what I’ve seen the majority are men) attending these events. They aren’t DBS checked, and again it’s open to the public, yeah show a drivers licence, big deal. No amount of people telling me looking doesn’t hurt is not going to change my mind, if some sick freak is going there to purposely look at children, children shouldn’t be at that event.

It doesn’t explain the blurred lines/pants issue. So I’m guessing like PP said, it’s slipped under the radar.

"The unique nature of the organisation makes BN especially vulnerable to infiltration by people with a sexual interest in children and BN realises that potential abusers may deliberately target children through its events and activities"

Yes then two points you raised stood out to me with bells and whistles on too.

We've been told repeatedly that there is no additional risk, BN themselves admit in black and white there very clearly is. We knew that anyway due to the pre-registration and id needed and super-duper strict safeguards in place. Bringing us to.......

...... opening these events to the public kind of flies in the face of their ratios, so are surely breaching their own safeguarding policy? Doesn't instill confidence does it.

Bottom line for me, any naturist organised event, club etc shouldn't be open to anyone under the age of 18, maybe 16 at a push. This will avoid any younger people feeling pressurised to join in, either verbally ie. Don't be a prude, or by virtue of the adults saying it's just a chance to have family time (not many children would go up against their parents if it's put that way :( ) Anyone lamenting or anxious that they are robbed of leisurely family time could be given ideas on alternative days out, I'm quite sure there are lots.

The business of keeping and viewing illegal photographs of children is probably a symptom of a sick mind, but again it does not harm the child

Really???????? Are you fucking kidding me??????

You think the initial abuse is the only issue?
If images of a child being abused were then passed around online for the rest of the planets perverts to acquire I’m in no doubt that that would cause significant distress, probably for the rest of that child’s life, and in the cases where the parents weren’t responsible, it would destroy them too.

Anyone else take a SIOB then or just me? I feel quite ill. And concerned.

Smells of 'pie' around here a bit.

I am beyond disgusted! Sick bastards!

@ordinarydad

In the matter of nudity, where is the harm in a child being seen by others?

Firstly it is not the child choosing to be seen naked by adults they don't know because they aren't old enough to make that choice.

Secondly most adults can sense when they are being looked at in a sexual way, and if unwelcome it isn't a nice feeling, but adults can deal with it. A child, on the other hand, may well sense something "off" and feel uncomfortable, but not be able to understand it as an adult would,or put it into context, or deal with it or process it, leaving them with a feeling of threat, anxiety, etc, is my understanding of it

Thirdly if someone is sexually aroused by a child and actively follows their desire to seek out seeing children naked, the chances are they are doing a lot more than just looking, and their activities are feeding into other activities making the situation in relation to children being abused worse. So stopping the looking is one fundamental step.

photographs re your later post, it is against the law to have the photographs, whether or not the sentence is usually lesser than where there has been physical abuse.