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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Boys left behind at school while girls get trip

514 replies

Quickchat1 · 05/03/2019 23:42

Recently my sons class went on an educational trip to a local university. But only the girls. The boys were left behind with a cover teacher listening to music and generally doing very little. My son is GCSE year and would have benefited from a computing and science event. No it was only for the girls with no mention of anything for the boys. I understand this was a STEM event for girls only but if there was a STEM event for boys only there would be uproar! AIBU?

OP posts:
CostanzaG · 08/03/2019 23:16

Everything you have just suggested actually happens Weetabix ....just because you personally haven't seen/heard/experienced them doesn't mean they don't happen.

The thread has concentrated on girls in STEM because that was the topic in the OP. There are literally dozens of initiatives which are addressing all kinds of disadvantage, inequality and underrepresentation but that wasn't the topic of the op.

And nobody has said university is for everyone. It isn't and never will be.

Weetabixandshreddies · 08/03/2019 23:30

just because you personally haven't seen/heard/experienced them doesn't mean they don't happen.

Then that's part of the problem surely? Who is seeing and hearing it? For these schemes to have an impact they need to reach sufficient numbers of students.
And in the school in the OP presumably there would be some of the boys who were from one of the other disadvantaged groups and who appear to be receiving no advice, judging by what the OP says?

AnneOfCleanTables · 08/03/2019 23:30

Society and popular culture encourage boys into STEM - comics, TV, films, the male-heavy science curriculum and history lessons - all of them consistently and constantly tell boys that a career in STEM is open to them and that it's very welcoming of males.
One trip for girls doesn't even come close to redressing that balance.

LaBelleSauvage · 08/03/2019 23:46

YABU

mathanxiety · 09/03/2019 03:26

Agree AnneOfCleanTables
Not to mention the pastel vs primary colour Lego sets, the graphics on clothing beginning with newborn apparel, the colour coded aisles of the big box toy shops. There is relentless pressure to conform to gendered stereotypes.

PregnantSea · 09/03/2019 05:09

How does excluding boys from the trip help to encourage girls into STEM? Why couldn't they all just go?

mathanxiety · 09/03/2019 05:24

Because the event was run specifically to show girls that there are openings for them in STEM careers, presumably hosted by women in STEM careers and academia, and was designed to provide a safe space where the girls involved and also the women hosting could speak candidly and address specific concerns girls might have.

One of my DDs attended an event like this. Having boys there would have changed the dynamic in every way possible. It would not have been about girls in STEM. It would have been all about STEM in general, and the girls would not have even considered attending.

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/03/2019 07:48

Out of interest, how many girls who attend girls schools then go on to study for a career in STEM?

BertrandRussell · 09/03/2019 08:06

Girls in girls schools are subject to societal pressures and unenlightened teachers too......

CostanzaG · 09/03/2019 08:11

Are you a young person from a disadvantaged group Weetabix? If not, then why would you have heard of these initiatives? They aren't aimed at you!!

You're making some huge assumptions based on very little knowledge and information. You're assuming that this event was the only event organised by that school. I suspect that it wasn't ( given what I know about the current expectations in schools)
What probably didn't happen is multiple events on the same day as that is a logistical nightmare and costly from the schools. Also, there will have been a limited number of places available on the event. Even taking away the purpose of the event I suspect it would not have been possible to take the whole year group for purely practical reasons.

The Gatsby Benchmarks state that all young people should have encounters with further and higher education so the chances are the OP s son will attend an event at another time.

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/03/2019 08:35

CostanzaG

No I'm not, but my children are so you would think that had these events been offered to them that I would know. That is where my information comes from - from having raised 2 children and got them to university.

And I am drawing my conclusions from the OP. She doesn't say that any other trips happened or were planned for any other groups. And she doesn't say some girls. She says all the girls went and the boys remained at school, not that some girls went and the remaining students stayed at school.

CostanzaG · 09/03/2019 08:46

Well, the OP give very little information. Most of which was told to her by her son.....I think we may have to take some of that with a pinch of salt.

A snap shot of one day doesn't give you a clear or full picture. If the school is implementing the Gatsby Benchmarks then there will be other visits to universities.

Your children left school years ago and we've already established their school's career guidance provision was non existent. That doesn't mean that's the case for all schools.
The Gatsby Benchmarks only became statutory in January 2018 so unfortunately your children wouldn't have benefited from those changes.

WP events are targeted using a wide range of data but it is up to the school to engage with those projects. Your children's school obviously didn't and that's a shame.

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/03/2019 08:51

My daughter left school only in 2017 so not that long ago.

Melonwater · 09/03/2019 08:57

I would have been annoyed at the lack of interesting day of school.

They should have planned some sort of career/studies pathways program for the boys or they should have truthfully explained that the day was going to be lacking educational value so that your ds could just stay at home!

Very poor that this was not communicated. Next time something similar comes up phone the school and find out what is going to be provided for the remaining students.

However I think that it is fine for the girls to have this experience provided exclusively for them.

CostanzaG · 09/03/2019 09:12

But you can't judge what other schools do based on the experience of one school. Plus, as I said the new statutory guidance didn't come into force until January 2018 but most schools only started making a concerted effort to implement them from September 2018 so unfortunately your daughter wouldn't have benefited.

noblegiraffe · 09/03/2019 09:13

Given that the OP describes something that would not happen in Y11 this close to GCSEs (random trip, all girls going, all teachers going so all lessons covered by a cover teacher and boys being left to piss about instead of revising), it’s probably best not to base any arguments on the details given there.

CostanzaG · 09/03/2019 09:17

Excellent point noblegiraffe when I ran similar events year 11's were a no go group unless it was linked to the curriculum.

MyOtherProfile · 09/03/2019 09:36

I would have been annoyed at the lack of interesting day of school.
So would I if it were true. I absolutely don't believe it was. No way would a school leave all the year 11 boys faffing around in school with a supply teacher this close to exams. Crazy thread.

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/03/2019 09:45

But you can't judge what other schools do based on the experience of one school.
I'm not basing it on one school - between them my children have been to 2 schools (1 outstanding) and a 6th form college. Experience of 3 other schools via friends. All under the same LA though.

CostanzaG · 09/03/2019 09:58

I find it so hard to believe that an outstanding school doesn't offer any careers education or guidance.... let alone a group of schools. I know that's your interpretation but in my nearly 20 years of experience of working with schools all over the UK I've never come across that.

However, an explanation for this is that there is trend to embed careers education in the curriculum and a trend to not call it careers which has implications when evaluating it. The same is happening in universities. Because it's not explicit people claim they've had no support when they've actually had lots.

Also, lots of people don't fully understand what careers education and guidance is so there is misalignment in expectations. For example, you expected a careers advisers to be able to give detailed advice on student finance and accomodation when that actually falls outside their remit slightly.

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/03/2019 10:36

So what do you class as careers guidance?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect advice on the degree needed for a certain career and then the details of what that entails.

What is the point of encouraging a disadvantaged student to aim to go to university but then omit to explain the process and how much it will cost? How does that achieve anything?

Of course you can become a nuclear engineer Sarah despite coming from a single parent family who live on benefits. Study these GCSEs and these A levels and then apply via UCAS.

Then Sarah fills out the application but can't pay the registration fee, or travel to the interview. Or she does that part but then can't pay the accommodation costs or get a guarantor for her house because no one advised her how to navigate this? How have you achieved anything?

CostanzaG · 09/03/2019 10:56

You really don't understand what careers advice and guidance is and you're choosing to misinterpret my attempts to explain it you.

Careers education, advice and guidance is helping people make informed career decisions and ( this bit is important) develop career management skills which empower people to make these informed decisions and manage their careers into the future.

Careers advisers don't omit information a part of their job is providing information but they can't be expected to be experts in absolutely everything. So, they will explain that there are financial implications in choosing to go to university and give a broad overview but they wouldn't be able to tell anyone exactly how much loan they would get. In that case an adviser would recommend a student speaks to student finance England. They would support a student if needed but ultimately a student would need to take some responsibility themselves.....this is the empowerment bit.

In your view of careers guidance you seem to think advisers should be doing things for the students where in fact they are there to provide information, advise and offer guidance but the clients themselves need to take responsibility for the actual doing

noblegiraffe · 09/03/2019 11:02

Sarah is clever enough to become a nuclear engineer but not clever enough to use google?

CostanzaG · 09/03/2019 11:04

That's a vital career management skill noble 😂

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/03/2019 12:05

Because this information is only there if you know to look for it. So when deciding to go to uni do you even think that you will need to find a guarantor for your accommodation? If you don't have parents to help you or to provide financial assistance what happens? Who helps you with that? In my experience the answer is no one (coming from a parent who acted as guarantor for another housemate because they had no one). They would have dropped out otherwise - how does that help students enter these careers?

Just telling them about jobs doesn't actually help them enter those jobs.