Boys left behind at school while girls get trip

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Recently my sons class went on an educational trip to a local university. But only the girls. The boys were left behind with a cover teacher listening to music and generally doing very little. My son is GCSE year and would have benefited from a computing and science event. No it was only for the girls with no mention of anything for the boys. I understand this was a STEM event for girls only but if there was a STEM event for boys only there would be uproar! AIBU?

I'm assuming this was picked up by Ofsted?
No it never was. It never even came up. Maybe they classed asking them to fill out post 16 destination forms as career advice? I don't know. Tbh we had bigger fish to fry and my daughter has been left 4 years, my son nearly 8 years so things might now be different.

Judging by the number of parents on a prospective university facebook page that I belong to I have my doubts. There are multiple posts asking how student finance works, how accommodation works, how you can get a guarantor if you have no income... Where was the careers advice in these cases? It's great to raise aspirations and broaden horizons but unless it's backed up with practical help how much difference will it really make?

Even forcing students to require parental income declarations until they are 24 or 25 potentially dissuades some students. If parents won't support then the student only gets minimum loan. How is that right?

Student finance and accommodation isn't careers advice. You'd need to speak to student finance England or the student finance team at your closest university or university of choice. Same for accommodation- mowt universities have an accomodation office.

And therein lies the problem.

What good is it building students up, pushing them towards certain career paths and then abandoning them with a "that's not my job"? If kids can't navigate the system or their parents can't they can't access these degrees can they? Maybe they would be better doing a degree apprenticeship, that doesn't necessarily have the same financial demands, but they won't realise that if isn't explained to them will they?

This was the problem with Nick Clegg telling kids that money wasn't a barrier to university, that loans aren't repaid until you start work. Yeah right. What about loans don't cover your living costs, that deposits are paid up front, along with agents fees and guarantor checks? It should be the job of a careers advisor to explain all of this and help them to make an informed choice.

Not our job indeed.

Helping people make an informed choice (a careers advisers job) and knowing the student finance system inside out (student finance England's job or university finance teams jobs) are two different things.

A careers adviser will ( and should) know the basics but they will refer a client to the relevant expert so they can get the correct information. That's how it should work. It doesn't mean there is a ' not my job' culture. It's about using expertise. I train careers advisers - I give a short session on the basics of student finance but signpost them to expert help . If we expect careers advisers to be experts in everything then we'll be in a jack of all trades master of none situation. The same can be applied to the benefits and housing system. It's not a CAs job to know those systems in detail.

It's also not a careers advisers fault the finance system is what it is.....neither is it universities!! The repayment system isn't too problematic but I completely agree with your point about loans not covering the cost of living.

But it isn't an informed decision is it? Not if they don't know the reality until they are in it.

Maybe they would choose an apprenticeship rather than university if they know the facts?

My godsons are both embarking on IT and engineering degrees (I know they are male but there are women on their courses too so it fits with the OP). Their dad is in IT and so knows all of the information needed. There was huge competition for their courses - 1 is at uni the other doing a degree apprenticeship in industry. The interview process was rigorous, it wasn't just a case of applying via UCAS with the correct number of points. They have both been doing relevant extra curricular courses for a couple of years before applying and going to summer school and other programmes offered that their dad knows about. That's the competition for these engineering degrees. How is taking a group of girls in year 11 to a university open day going to make up for the advantage that some students have? These programmes need to start much earlier in a student's career and need to also provide the extra curricular opportunities that institutions require.

Young people should be told the facts about all options but the nuances of student finance needs to be addressed by an expert.

Look to the Gatsby Benchmarks. That is what is happening in schools and colleges right now. These have to be implemented in all schools and colleges by march 2020. This will mean a marked improvement for young people going forward.

Yanbu. Boys should have been offered something similarly inspiring.

The equivalent is that boys should have been offered something where men are underrepresented.

Isn’t that cleaning, clerical, childcare, cooking and some other C?

Cashiering maybe.

“The equivalent is that boys should have been offered something where men are underrepresented.”

I can see them flocking to a workshop on being part of a range of low status, zero hours, low paid occupations.

Have a look in any supermarket -plenty of men employed on zero hour, barely above minimum wage jobs.

Have a look in any supermarket -plenty of men employed on zero hour, barely above minimum wage jobs.

Supermarkets in the UK, employee more women in store. In the warehouses its men. The warehouses get far better pay plus benefits, due to unions and directives that supermarkets/distributors have to abide by.

So again jobs which are dominated by men have better pay plus benefits.

Supermarkets still have a gender pay gap.

I know because I work for HR for WalMart.

Maybe we should have binmen visit. Hardly any women doing that job.

The equivalent is that boys should have been offered something where men are underrepresented.

I agree with this. I don't have any issues with girls being encouraged to pursue STEM careers, but there should be an equal emphasis on encouraging boys to look at careers such as nursing

Frecklesonmyarm

I'm talking about shop floor staff. Pretty much even split male/female in my local store and all staff employed on the same pay.

Gosh look at that anecdote. One supermarket and someone having a reckon.

Really? You think that significantly more women than men are employed in supermarkets? I'm not just talking about 1 store.

“Despite girls’ success at GCSE, three-quarters of women still end up in the five Cs of employment – cleaning, catering, caring, cashiering and clerical. Explanations for this trend include the stereotyping of subject choices at school. Inflexibility in work means that once students have gone along a career path, they find it difficult to change. There is some evidence that teachers and others in education may also contribute towards these trends, consciously or unconsciously encouraging boys and girls to pursue ‘gender-appropriate’ subjects.”

www.thehrdirector.com/legal-updates/diversity-updates-2009/work-aspirations-influenced-by-stereotyping/

And what jobs do boys end up in?

and that those from lower socio-economic groups, girls and ethnic minority students, were most disadvantaged by the current system.

Taken from the same article (which was published in 2009 so not sure how relevant the data is) but clearly many other groups are also disadvantaged.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that?

Boy mum here..... YABU
I have watched men climb the career ladder at a much faster pace than women throughout my career and have worked in two very different industries. Make privilege is still a big thing and if there is an event to make women feel more welcome in an industry I would hope my sons' school do the same.

Erm Weetabix nobody is disputing that. In fact, social mobility is currently a political priority as it appears to be stalling and possibly going backwards...but that doesn't mean we ignore other forms of disadvantage or inequality.

It's not an either/or situation.

But surely this is the crux of the OP? We have no context to the school but there are possibly other groups of disadvantaged students who aren't receiving this type of intervention. Of course encourage girls in this way but then what is being offered to other disadvantaged students?

Concentrating on girls are the only initiatives around STEM subjects at university? Are there other initiatives for girls who don't want to go to university but for whom learning a trade might be a better option so eg plumbing, electricians, builders, gas fitters, firefighters? University isn't for everyone and people earn good salaries from these jobs, plus they offer flexibility to be self employed yet I rarely see jobs like these suggested to girls.