AIBU to remind everyone that the MMR vaccine does NOT cause autism?

[TheHodgeoftheHedge]

Seeing as this worry comes up so many times on MN and in wider life, I feel obliged to post this and remind everyone that MMR has not link to autism whatsoever, as yet another HUGE study has found.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/mmr-vaccine-autism-antivax-measles-study-andrew-wakefield-a8808086.html

Thanks.

@cathmidston - Vaxxed is directed by Andrew Wakefield. The man who came up with this theory in the first place. The man also found guilty by the GMC of 36 counts of misconduct, including 4 counts of dishonesty and 12 counts of abusing developmentally delayed children. Not the most solid of sources.

Andrew Wakefield is perfectly capable of lining his own pockets without my help. I will not be watching anything by him and you using him and anti vaccine sites as sources says all I need to know.

Dr William Thompson ...lead CDC researcher is on record explaining how they scewed the data to remove a link between the MMR and autism in one of their studies ... fact

You choked down your fear and gave him the mmr? Imagine how I feel my son already showing signs of autism and giving him the mmr three times as they forgot to record the one then the people in Wales in the height of the outbreak some children had 6 mmr vaccines to keep them safe wonder how much sleep there parents got

I remember reading the newspaper reports on Wakefield at the time and I went straight to the Lancet article because it sounded so interesting and ground breaking. I was working on medical ethics at the time and used to train research ethics committees. When I read the paper my jaw dropped. It was the most unethical and shoddy piece of research I had ever read in a peer reviewed journal and that was before everything he had done became clear (e.g. undeclared interest, sponsored by pharmaceutical company with an interest in single vaccine, etc.). I couldn’t believe anyone would a) carry out such an unethical and unscientific piece of crap, b) peer reviewers and editors in a major medical journal would publish this piece of crap (no one has ever held them responsible for this fiasco) and c) journals would choose to bring this rubbish to the public’s attention in such a positive way.

I cannot believe anyone who has read the article would ever think that there was anything in it.

I'm yet to meet an anti vaxxer who can present an unbiased, reasoned argument.
There is no link between MMR and autism. There is not one scrap of evidence to suggest otherwise.

You can't argue with an anti vaxxer. They've literally been brainwashed.

I'm yet to meet an anti vaxxer who can present an unbiased, reasoned argument.
There is no link between MMR and autism. There is not one scrap of evidence to suggest otherwise.

You can't argue with an anti vaxxer. They've literally been brainwashed.

My family has coeliac and autism and sometimes in the same children. This is the very thing the so - called disgraced Andrew Wakefield noted

Not "so-called disgraced". He was completely disgraced. He was struck off the medical register by the GMC in 2010 for offences relating to dishonesty and failing to act in the best interest of vulnerable child parents. It was the GMC's longest case and the panel said that it was "profoundly concerned that Dr Wakefield repeatedly breached fundamental principles of research medicine." That's pretty damning.

The original paper in the Lancet was based on a study of just 12 children and wasn't randomised. Despite what Wakefield claimed several of those children had records showing concerns about developmental delays before getting the MMR vaccine.

If you're a parent or a relative of a child with autism I just wanted to say that your child is valuable and as wonderful as any other child. I'm grateful that we have people who see the world a bit differently - look at Greta Thunberg. We are so lucky to have kids like her. I just wanted to counteract some of the awful comments on this thread. I can't imagine what it's like reading them.

@cathmidston I'm not going to click the link, as a brief google has shown me that it's an anti-vax organisation. I don't want to have any part in an increase in their site traffic.

Does it genuinely mean that you don't believe in germs? Or that they're real but don't cause disease?

I'm going to get a lot of hate from my response here.

Dr Andrew Wakefield was my gastro doctor and I agree his findings were done underhanded but he did prove there is a link with the MMR to IDB. I was a 1 in 10,000 that got IDB following having the MMR jab and no amount of argument will tell me different so I won't partake in a row on here about it. Ultimately in my opinion, he was struck off because the government would've had a lot of pay outs for the damage the MMR has done.
However I must stress, I would still give my children the MMR jab regardless as Measles etc in comparison to having IDB is extremely serious and can be fatal. As much I had a tough time with my health because of this, my parents and I agree I would've still had the jab.

My DS had the MMR. I was terrified and literally shaking, willing myself to remain calm and not jump up and stop the nurse. Because while 95% of my brain was saying “there’s no proven link with autism”, the other 5% was screaming “she’s poisoning your child, stop her!”

There doesn’t have to be proof of a link with autism. Rumours and controversy are enough to frighten people. A lot of people feel they couldn’t cope with a disabled child and nobody wants to feel responsible for their child developing a disability.

My DD and I both have ASD.Anti vaxxers terrify me tbh. Forget how long ago this Ben Goldacre clip was but im just going to leave it here

YANBU OP

@Sacha ...ok here’s another link (not anti vaxxer I promise) www.superlife.com/pasteur-bechamp-germ-theory/

We are outnumbered (in terms of number) by as much as 10:1 bacteria vs human cells ... our amazing microbiome that is essential to our immune system. Disease happens through physical, chemical, or emotional stress that then changes the terrain on with these micro organisms operate thus giving rise to the symptoms of disease. I’m extremely tired so the article will go into much more depth

@ViolaD77 that’s a really interesting perspective..thanks for sharing

@violaD77 what’s IDB? Is it Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) - I.e. Crohn’s/colitis?

I find, the hardest thing about being autistic is the knowledge that everyone is of the opinion that I SHOULD BE DEAD! Yeah, thanks for that.

The vast majority of autistic people are like me, we can walk, talk, look after ourselves, drive, have a family and hold down jobs. The autistic people who struggle with basic self care are in the minority. Most autistic people are undiagnosed.

It is not on the increase. Identification has improved. I discovered I was autistic at age 45.

I never had the mmr as it wasn't around.

Thanks for making us feel like pointless, worthless individuals though.

Another vaccine thread

My great-grandparents told me about the "good old days" before vaccines when I was growing up...no fucking thanks. I couldn't wait to get our daughter vaccinated.

@Sacha
..that’s actually a pretty rubbish article.. the first one explains it better.. but you get the gist... I would argue that bacteria are involved in the healing processes of most illnesses and that the body utilises them accordingly ...
but I also get that this is a massive paradigm shift for most people... it’s taken me nearly 30 yrs I’d research to get yo this point

OP
You trivialised it the minute you started comparing it to death. (Which you implied through your second post)
Many other posters then followed suit.
It is not okay to make this comparison anymore.
Some people are scared it causes Autism. You can’t disprove a negative. If you really wanted to increase the uptake of the MMR you’d campaign to make Autism less scary by; Campaigning for Disability education in schools. Campaigning for decent early intervention for everyone. Campaigning for Autism Friendly services in the private sector. Campaigning for harsh sentences for disablism.
Campaigning against the prevelant abuse in residential homes.
Campaigning to make care a specialised career with proper training and education required & an increase in pay.
Campaigning to increase carers allowance so it atleast matches the living wage.
Campaigning for more research into the causes of Autism & possible treatments.

I could go on & on.

Autism isn’t just a painful subject for me, it’s a painful subject for many, many parents of moderate & severely autistic children. But it does not come anywhere near to the enhanced pain of having a severely disabled child & living in an ignorant, discriminating society, the lack of empathy amongst the majority of people is saddening, the lack of knowledge & the lack of understanding from society as a whole makes life so much more difficult than it needs to be.

There is no link between the MMR and Crohn’s or IBS. What there is, is a 1995 patent filed by Wakefield claiming he has discovered a link and a round of investment calls for a viral diagnostics company that would make millions diagnosing the link. This fraud, the led to the study that was supposed to establish the link, was part of the case against the professional misconduct charges.

The investigative journalist who uncovered all this and gave evidence against Wakefield, details the fraud here:
www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5258.full

I don't think MMR causes autism, but what I DO believe is that we are only just starting to understand the importance of gut health, how vaccines impact on gut health, and the link between gut and brain and epigenetics.

In other words it's not out of the question that a child who has the right genetic and gut "blend" to be predisposed to autism may find a vaccination upsets the balance and tips them over into autism, so to speak. Obviously this wouldn't account for all children with autism.

There's a clear link between autism and gut health. Hence why many people see some improvement when they alter diets.

Anti vaxxers are weighing up the tiny chance of their child having lasting effects of measles, Vs all the things they believe vaccination can cause or contribute to. Personally I know a number of children with autism and none who have had measles, so I can see how they end up erring on the side of not vaccinating. (And I have vaccinated my DC)

I hate these threads. They cause so much heartache. Generally speaking, I am pro-vaccination. Generally speaking, I don't think the MMR is linked to ASD. But I won't say that the parent who was (is?) on here who had absolute evidence of developmental regression and subsequent ASD dx within days of the MMR vaccination was 'wrong' to link them in her specific case - how could I be so arrogant??

Generally speaking, I find it hard to imagine preferring the loss of your child to an ASD dx. But again, there is a huge spectrum of disability in ASD, and a huge spectrum in coping ability amongst parents. It's easy to say how much we would love child X when we're not doing it. I've had to evacuate my DDs from our church tonight because DD1 (13, SN but not ASD) went into complete meltdown. Did I feel good, dragging DD3 (9) and DD2 (11, with ASD) out of the church just 20 minutes after arriving? Nope. I felt crap.

Generally speaking, I don't think this thread will make one person decide to vaccinate their child who hasn't already made that decision. But I bet it's made at least 30 people feel completely rubbish .