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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to remind everyone that the MMR vaccine does NOT cause autism?

999 replies

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 05/03/2019 16:49

Seeing as this worry comes up so many times on MN and in wider life, I feel obliged to post this and remind everyone that MMR has not link to autism whatsoever, as yet another HUGE study has found.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/mmr-vaccine-autism-antivax-measles-study-andrew-wakefield-a8808086.html

Thanks.

OP posts:
JRMisOdious · 05/03/2019 21:41

Cathmidston

That is because I am antivax... clearly .... it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work that one out
Just like you are pro vax and provide only links to pro vax data“

No but it does take scientists to work out that there is no link between autism and the MMR vaccine. Which they have. Irrefutably. Time and time again.

Backwoodsgirl · 05/03/2019 21:42

I am not a anti vaxxer, however I had the MMR as a child and then contradicted mumps. I am deaf in one ear as a result.

The vaccine works but is not perfect

JRMisOdious · 05/03/2019 21:47

“As a child/teen in the late 1970s and 1980s, I hardly knew ANYone who was autistic/on the spectrum/a special needs child. Now it seems that every 3rd or 4th child is on the spectrum, or has ADHD, or aspergers, or is classed as a special needs child. “

As a child growing up in the 60s and 70s, I knew a great many children who were labelled as difficult, trouble makers or stupid.
In the following decades there was an explosion of children with autism, dyslexia, adhd, dyspraxia. What caused them?
Correct diagnoses: some of which unfortunately happened to roughly co-incide with childhood vaccinations.

MogThoughtDarkThoughts · 05/03/2019 21:48

One theory about increased ASD rates that I find reasonably plausible is that these days, people with a genetic predisposition towards autism are now more likely - thanks to factors like internet dating and huge tech firms - to meet and have babies. Goes some way towards explaining the clusters you get in big cities. Look at eg Silicon Valley.

Not the whole story, obviously- increased diagnosis rates also plays a part here. Plus we’re finding out new things all the time. Women in particular have been massively under-diagnosed due to it being considered a ‘male brain’ issue.

Justanotherlurker · 05/03/2019 22:00

I think this thread shows the power of echo chambers and self selecting /social media

The biggest Anti Vax charity had an embarrassing situation with a self funded scientific examination which concluded that there was no link between mmr and autism.

A look at the recent netflix doc on Flat earthers shows that a lot these people are working from B to A rather than a scientific approach of A to B and the mindset involved when studies don't confirm B

Filbert7 · 05/03/2019 22:15

Ignoring the anti-vaxers in here, there are a few posters who seem to think that MMR might trigger autism somehow.

However, we now have numerous studies showing that autism is equally prevalent among vaccinated and unvaccinated children.

On the massive off-chance that a pathology is one day found whereby MMR causes autism is some cases, there must be a similarly prevelant pathology that only affects unvaccinated children. Then what?

And I understand that a couple of environmental factors that may increase the risk of autism have been identified; children born to older parents are more likely to be autistic. Anecdotally I think more people do have children at a later age now than in years gone by.

EwItsAHooman · 05/03/2019 22:22

families of babies who have a fear that their baby may get autism

You can't "get" autism, you can't catch it or give it to someone. It's a neurodevelopment differences you either have it or you don't, no "getting" involved.

JRMisOdious · 05/03/2019 22:23

Extract from yesterday’s telegraph and reported widely:

“The MMR vaccine is linked to lower rates of autism, the largest ever study has shown, as parents were urged to ignore anti-vaccination campaigns and make sure their children had the jab.

The new study by Danish researchers found children who had the measles, mumps and rubella vaccination were seven per cent less likely to be autistic than those who missed the injection ...., “

Cathmidston · 05/03/2019 22:24

‘However, we now have numerous studies showing that autism is equally prevalent among vaccinated and unvaccinated children.’

Errrr actually no we don’t but if you could supply one?

BloggersNet · 05/03/2019 22:26

My friend says for her it's more about the nasty stuff they put in the vaccines.

EwItsAHooman · 05/03/2019 22:27

What nasty stuff would that be?

BloggersNet · 05/03/2019 22:30

No idea.

JRMisOdious · 05/03/2019 22:30

No we don’t. We now have a huge study showing that autism is more prevalent amongst children who have NOT had the MMR. See yesterday’s press. Take your pick. Surprised you missed it.

Get it into your head. Wakefield was a nutjob at best, a cynical monster praying on people’s fears for profit at worst.

Lougle · 05/03/2019 22:32

Just to say, and I feel it has to be said, that having ASD doesn't mean you are 'naughty'. DD2 (11) has ASD and has 0 behaviour points (bad marks) since starting Secondary School in September. That means that in 6 months, she hasn't had one time where her uniform has been out of place, she hasn't had the right equipment, she has said or done something that breaks school rules, her hair has been down when it shouldn't be, etc.

Her problem, in a sense, is that she's too good at school. She's almost invisible, and every teacher remarks on how incredibly quiet she is in their class, and asks if they've done something that has upset her, or has caused her to be that way. We've had to tell them that she's like it in every class.

Anyway, a slight aside, but there are so many stereotypes that I felt I had to mention it.

Filbert7 · 05/03/2019 22:33

Errrr actually no we don’t but if you could supply one?
See the OP Confused

Gilead · 05/03/2019 22:36

For the twits stating that there were fewer children with additional needs thirty years ago, check your numbers. Whilst you’re doing that don’t forget population figures and birth rates. Oh and I’ll let the children I worked with forty years ago know that they didn’t exist.

cath I can say with absolute certainty that vaccines did not cause my autism, I’m too old to have had the ones you have ‘researched’.

Crinklesmile · 05/03/2019 22:37

This is a interesting thread.
I've had measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox, and am fortunate to have suffered no ill effects. How? No idea, just luck of the draw I guess.
My eldest has hf autism, not caused by MMR (which she had) but she had a reaction to the vaccine and has has a further reaction since (aged 12- the HPV)

My other children are up to date with all their vaccines.

My eldest is currently trying to get our GP to bring her vaccines up to date so she can go to uni with some protection- they are worried about her reactions and it may take time to work out.

I guess I'm saying, correlation does not equal causation but also, there are anomalies with everything. I do know that my daughter is deeply concerned at the risk of not being vaccinated.
As her mum I'm fearful of both

Cathmidston · 05/03/2019 22:38

avn.org.au/2018/10/vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated/

There are only a few small independent studies comparing completely unvaccinated vs vaccinated and none of them show equal autism incidence between the two groups

That study implying MMR decreases autism.. .... won’t be a study of vaccinated vs completely unvaccinated I can assure you

EwItsAHooman · 05/03/2019 22:41

Just to say, and I feel it has to be said, that having ASD doesn't mean you are 'naughty'. DD2 (11) has ASD and has 0 behaviour points (bad marks) since starting Secondary School in September. That means that in 6 months, she hasn't had one time where her uniform has been out of place, she hasn't had the right equipment, she has said or done something that breaks school rules, her hair has been down when it shouldn't be, etc.

DS isn't quite like that. If his needs are being met, particularly his sensory needs, then he is a model pupil. If his needs are not being met, again mainly his sensory needs, then he becomes disruptive - this could be subtle or not so subtle depending on the situation but includes things like shouting out answers, stream of consciousness monologuing, swinging on his chair (and other furniture), pacing around the classroom and visiting other children while they're working, messing around with his equipment (e.g., dismantling all of his pens), chewing/mouthing objects, flapping, rocking, verbal stimming (making "silly" noises repetitively), echolalia, avoidance tactics such as repeated toilet trips, daydreaming, and so on. If he was at school 30 years ago with none of his needs being met he would almost certainly have been considered to be naughty and would have spent most of his time either sitting outside the headteachers office or suspended.

Cathmidston · 05/03/2019 22:42

Gilead ...autism as such didn’t actually come into my decision making process..
significant risk of immunological and neurological issues did... against what for me are benign childhood illnesses ... like I stated earlier

Cherylshaw · 05/03/2019 22:42

I think there is such an increase in people with ASD because everyone needs a label now, and I think alot of people assume and say there child has autism when they haven't been diagnosed, my child has ASD and was also given the MMR vaccine, there were signs he had autism long before he had the vaccine and it never even occurred to me not to have it in fear of my child having autism.
There is no link, that is a fact if you chose to believe the fear mongering and nonsense anti vaxers spread that is your choice. I don't agree as it puts more vulnerable people and children in danger who have no choice about it (example a baby getting one of the three as too young for vaccine or a person who medically can't have vaccine)
As a parent who almost lost my son 3 times I can say without a shadow of a doubt I would rather he is who he is (with ASD) than having him get I'll from something I could have prevented.
Some of you are all talking like autism is this horrible and debilitating illness for some it can be really difficult and hard on the family but not everyone with ASD is the same.
I just can't in my mind see how there can be a choice and to compare it to someone born with downs syndrome is ludicrous they are totally different things

alaric77 · 05/03/2019 22:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MsMustDoBetter · 05/03/2019 22:51

YANBU

Gilead · 05/03/2019 22:52

As I’ve said to you before Cath do would you like to discuss these benign diseases with survivors of them, my 55 year old sister still suffering the effects of measles being one.

Cathmidston · 05/03/2019 22:57

And I could say the same to you regarding individuals damaged by vaccines..
we all weigh up the risks ... and for me the risk of vaccine damage is significantly greater

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