Does this sound like grooming? Please help- step uncle

[Lam23]

Posting for traffic/I’m not sure where else this belongs..
Background if it helps: I’m a mum of a nearly 4 year old. She is very bright, happy, outgoing, completely normal development wise and attends nursery full time. I met dh when she was 2 and they have a great relationship, which has grown over time, i can honestly say I really trust him and she has started to call him daddy which feels natural for us all. Her dad has never been in the picture and we have no contact with him.
I have recently begun to have real worries about her relationship with my dh’s brother. He is 31, unmarried, no kids. Generally quite an immature guy (loves gaming, works minimum wage job and lives in a flat share) but seems pleasant enough since I’ve known him. However, since he met dd at a family gathering probably a year ago, alarm bells are ringing for me more and more and I don’t know if it’s instinct or paranoia. Every time he sees her he picks her ups lot, tickles her, cuddles her, he addresses her as “friend” (seems odd for a 3 year old), he always buys her extravagant presents whenever we see him. She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting- because of all the positive attention he gives her (and maybe because she lacked a “dad figure” the first couple years of her life?) she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me. It seems really excessive that she is so into him and that he had instigated this type of relationship with her- dh’s sister, who has kids, has what I would consider a more normal relationship with my dd and is lovely to her but definitely doesn’t push the boundaries. He has now offered to babysit a few times and I refuse point blank each time which I think dh is a little upset by (dh idolises his brother and I can’t talk to him about ANY of this). It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee. My own brothers don’t do this with my dd and I feel like I can’t put a stop to it, but she is so trusting and I don’t know how to protect her. Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around, the amount of presents makes me uncomfortable and I feel like the physical stuff in public is a possible first step of grooming. Can anyone please help me understand what to do, it’s a really sensitive situation. Does this sound odd? I would appreciate anyone who knows about signs of grooming etc to weigh in. Do I sound crazy?
Fwiw my mum and sister are both teachers and having witnessed the interactions said that their own instincts were kicking in too and that the developing relationship wasn’t necessarily appropriate/he seemed a little over interested in kids.
Please help, this is stressing me out so much whenever we are around family.

I think we don't know if he is or isn't but u can protect her. First put in those boundaries that she is too young to, tell him I'd prefer if you were less tickly with her, tell him you have babysitters so no thanks, never let u hubby allow ur daughter to be babysat by him,give,put a list on fridge of people who can babysit so dh doesn't think of him first. Your hubby won't be offended by that. To protect your daughter make a very clear but subtle enough message to him that grooming is not going to be possible with her. Make it impossible. If she wants to cuddle him and lots of people are there like family gathering tell her she can have a quick cuddle right next to u and him then distract her away from him. If he keeps her there and makes like a joke that she won't come back to u, u tell him he is undermining you and u won't stand for that, he must encourage her back to u when u say. Do not let him push your boundaries, if he starts pushing boundaries or gets angry with u then u can invite family to yours for gatherings like parents in law for dinners sepatate of him etc. Maybe u can talk to dh sister and ask her confidentially how she puts in her boundaries. Either way you may not feel in control but you are. Protect your baby. Xxx

I can't see anything on the Lucy Faithful Foundation website about the number of women and men who sexually abuse children. All the research I have ever read says far more men sexually abuse children than women. And different research says between a quarter and third of sexual abuse is carried out by children. This is sometimes young children who themselves have been sexually abused. But it also includes 16 and 17 year olds sexually abusing a sibling.

Pics Sorry bit I dont think you understand red flags. This is more than just liking being with kids. It is inappropriate.

OP are you planning to have children with your partner? If so, you'll need to discuss this with him.

OP, ignore the deliberately goady posters on the thread. Their cheap point-scoring is irrelevant. We women and mothers have an instinct for a very good reason. Not all single men are a potential thread to our DC, nor all men are rapists. But we aren’t talking about some hypothetical discussion but a very concrete situation where one male’s interaction with a small child makes you and others very uncomfortable. We need to stop worrying about being nice or not offending someone and tick to our guts. You aren’t even the only person to remark upon what feels very inappropriate. If your DH wants to be a real dad, then he needs to take note of safe-guarding issues. Not all men are sexual abusers but the vast majority of abusers are male.

*stick sorry my keyboard is a bit sticky

Constanza - as I said, No-one in their right mind actively wants to babysit (not just males). But yes I would find it suspicious in many men. If the offer is in response to a request, or a moan about not being able to go out, then not so much. But actually asking to babsit, coupled with the amount of physical attention being given, and the presents, yes, a red flag I would rather protect against, just in case.

I find it odd that a single 31 year old would ask to babysit someone else’s child and not just once but multiple times... It may be perfectly innocent but every single child free person I have met would hate babysitting and only do it if they really had to.

I would also be a bit worried tbh OP. You need to trust your instincts and I would also talk to your DH.

Also I would be concerned if you decide to have DC with your DH. You’ll have less of a say in his DB babysitting if the child is biologically his niece/nephew.

You make a fair few comments about your daughter's behaviour. It feels like you're half saying what you want to say. What are your unspoken concerns about this?

She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting

she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me.

It seems really excessive that she is so into him

It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee.

Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around

honestly I’d rather she be a little more reticent around adult men, which seems to be who she flocks to

She only has male friends at nursery who she also gets a little obsessed with. I don’t know what’s normal.

But we aren’t talking about some hypothetical discussion but a very concrete situation where one male’s interaction with a small child makes you and others very uncomfortable. We need to stop worrying about being nice or not offending someone and tick to our guts

^^This

Never mind a plan over a few months,, just cut all contact immediately. Like a PP said, if he really is a decent man, he'll understand, or at least have a rational conversation with you. Especially if he's in law enforcement. If he kicks off or blocks you then you have your answer.

*I find it odd that a single 31 year old would ask to babysit someone else’s child and not just once but multiple times... It may be perfectly innocent but every single child free person I have met would hate babysitting and only do it if they really had to.

I would also be a bit worried tbh OP. You need to trust your instincts and I would also talk to your DH.*

I agree op needs to trust her instincts but I know plenty of single people of different ages who really enjoy looking after a niece or nephew, in general it's not odd.

Outpinked thats a really good point. I honestly don’t know what I’d do. Well I do- just continue with the same attitude I currently have, but I can appreciate it would be tough for dh to understand since I’m not going to outright accuse his db of being dodgy (without evidence)

Bridlington what do you mean? Just as I say, I feel some guilt about dd not knowing her dad from birth, maybe she does have daddy issues I think it makes her vulnerable in future if she is always looking for male affirmation. It’s irrational though because her bio dad skipped out and refused to be involved. I offered to facilitate contact last on her 2nd bday- then gave up.

I've had a teenage male babysitters (I've known him since he was 8) and have no qualms about men babysitting my DDs. His father babysat when he couldn't one time. Another male friend babysits mine (along with his DD) when his wife and I go out. I don't have a problem with these people because I trust them and have never had a moment of worry.

So I don't have that men=no babysitting thing.

And I still say listen to your instincts and do not let THIS man look after your daughter. It's not a disaster than he doesn't babysit; it is a disaster if he turns out to be less than trustworthy. You do not have to quantify it - that fact that you do not want him to is enough and your DP should not be trying to force this. You seem to have valid reasons, do not let them be minimised.

I don't trust my PIL to watch them properly so they have never babysat. They want to and DH said recently that he's be happy to let them now as the DDs are old enough to watch out for themselves - I had to make him listen to the qualifier he'd just added. A 10 & 8 year old would have to be responsible for themselves because his parents wouldn't be. It's enough for him that I'm not happy about it.

Some men get this way when they're broody - both my friend's fiancé (whom I've known forever) and my younger brother (30) have become this way in the last year or so. Both love kids and want families, both have wives who've put that on the back burner for now. Neither concern me with DS.

But the BIG differences here are that you don't know this man very well, and that the interactions are giving you a gut feeling that something's not quite right. If I had either of those scenarios, I wouldn't allow my DC to be alone with the person, male or female.

Trust your instincts. It's better to be wrong and potentially offensive than right at your child's detriment.

By which I mean, I think she might be vulnerable to opportunistic abusers. And this guys behaviour is rattling me

I'd go with my gut, without making making any out and out accusations (which I don't think you would).

Could you go with approach that you don't want her to become obsessed with someone who isn't her parent? Also, less presents please, because you don't want her to become spoiled. Or finally, that your family wants to see more of her.

What he does next will be very telling.

@OpiesOldLady and @AngelaHodgeson

That statistic quoted by Opies is grossly misleading or false. I work as a parole officer for sexual offenses and have studied child sex abuse in great depth. The numbers for male versus female perpetrators of child sex abuse are 88-95% versus 3-10% depending on the study and it's parameters. I'd be happy to link to a number of studies.

Any of those behaviours on their own wouldn't worry me.
All put together, then I'd be very worried.

f you met your DH when she was 2 and she is not yet 4 then you haven't safeguarded her appropriately already

Indeed.

@RtmhWales - I'm honestly not lying. That's what the lady from the Lucy Faithful foundation told us, several times during the course that I did. I had no reason to question her because as far as I was concerned, she was the expert, and I'm just a parent. Apologies if I have gotten it wrong but I've done the course twice now so I'm quite confused

Bridlington what do you mean? Just as I say, I feel some guilt about dd not knowing her dad from birth, maybe she does have daddy issues I think it makes her vulnerable in future if she is always looking for male affirmation. It’s irrational though because her bio dad skipped out and refused to be involved. I offered to facilitate contact last on her 2nd bday- then gave up

Firstly, I want to state that you should absolutely trust your instincts in this specific situation.

However, my questions were around what guilt you might carry and that it's worth exploring the reality around this in counselling. Also, the reality of "daddy issues", as this sounds a little like projection or transference to me.

Opies Sounds like she got it wrong then. Or maybe she meant rates of abuse of children over all?

Bridlington- that’s a great point. I am actually starting counselling for another reason but I agree it would be worth talking about.

That's what the lady from the Lucy Faithful foundation told us, several times during the course that I did. I had no reason to question her because as far as I was concerned, she was the expert, and I'm just a parent.

Was the lady from the Lucy Faithful Foundation's name Juliet Grayson?