Does this sound like grooming? Please help- step uncle

[Lam23]

Posting for traffic/I’m not sure where else this belongs..
Background if it helps: I’m a mum of a nearly 4 year old. She is very bright, happy, outgoing, completely normal development wise and attends nursery full time. I met dh when she was 2 and they have a great relationship, which has grown over time, i can honestly say I really trust him and she has started to call him daddy which feels natural for us all. Her dad has never been in the picture and we have no contact with him.
I have recently begun to have real worries about her relationship with my dh’s brother. He is 31, unmarried, no kids. Generally quite an immature guy (loves gaming, works minimum wage job and lives in a flat share) but seems pleasant enough since I’ve known him. However, since he met dd at a family gathering probably a year ago, alarm bells are ringing for me more and more and I don’t know if it’s instinct or paranoia. Every time he sees her he picks her ups lot, tickles her, cuddles her, he addresses her as “friend” (seems odd for a 3 year old), he always buys her extravagant presents whenever we see him. She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting- because of all the positive attention he gives her (and maybe because she lacked a “dad figure” the first couple years of her life?) she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me. It seems really excessive that she is so into him and that he had instigated this type of relationship with her- dh’s sister, who has kids, has what I would consider a more normal relationship with my dd and is lovely to her but definitely doesn’t push the boundaries. He has now offered to babysit a few times and I refuse point blank each time which I think dh is a little upset by (dh idolises his brother and I can’t talk to him about ANY of this). It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee. My own brothers don’t do this with my dd and I feel like I can’t put a stop to it, but she is so trusting and I don’t know how to protect her. Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around, the amount of presents makes me uncomfortable and I feel like the physical stuff in public is a possible first step of grooming. Can anyone please help me understand what to do, it’s a really sensitive situation. Does this sound odd? I would appreciate anyone who knows about signs of grooming etc to weigh in. Do I sound crazy?
Fwiw my mum and sister are both teachers and having witnessed the interactions said that their own instincts were kicking in too and that the developing relationship wasn’t necessarily appropriate/he seemed a little over interested in kids.
Please help, this is stressing me out so much whenever we are around family.

I have been reading and checking in over last few days @Lam. Your last couple of posts have prompted me to comment. I can see the discussion on here has started you thinking a lot about your life. Please talk to your mum about EVERYTHING not just BIL. Your mum and DSis sound like they will be there for you whatever. Do not give up your job please - you are a strong and loving mum who needs both the social support work brings and the financial stability to continue to raise your daughter brilliantly. for you.

Well. this evening when I (tactfully) said I wasn’t going to quit my job, dh got angry and said I was rejecting his “very nice offer” and that I was being selfish (even though my work provides health insurance as a benefit which pays for my counselling, and dh is supposedly concerned for my depression, something I have had since having dd but is getting better with cbt and now counselling.)
So the way that convo went, another tactful conversation about my wants (eg boundaries with his family/dd) is likely not to go down well.
Talked to my mum and sister tonight and they both reiterated their thoughts on my brother in law and also that they don’t think I seem happy or relaxed at the moment.
Food for thought and I do feel I can see things from a fresh perspective, partly in thanks to this thread which has kept me going through the week!

I think you need to seriously examine this relationship. Your DH sounds controlling and as if he is setting you up in a position where you can't win. His emphasis on your depression is a tactic to make you doubt yourself, see yourself as a liability.

This is extremely significant and sounds as if it comes from your heart:
I wish I could just exhale and be completely brutally honest about this all (including the boundaries things) to my dh but I already know how it would go. Him taking it personally or guilting me.

I feel somewhat trapped and as if I just want to run away with my dd and start again!

I know 'LTB' is considered laughable, a running joke, and ammunition to throw at Mumsnet, but I think you should consider drawing a line under this relationship and moving on.

Want to add - you seem very clear-sighted about what is going on in the relationship and clear and correct in your attribution of cause and effect when it comes to your depression and your unhappiness, and also the negatives of you leaving your job. You also seem to be well able to see his family dynamic, and you have your mum and sister who also seem very clear headed.

I think this talk of kids in a few years and you leaving your job is an attempt to trap you and make you dependent, quite frankly.

Yes, it's very worrying that he's being so insistent on you giving up your job. Calling you selfish because you don't want to be financially reliant on him, he's trying to make you feel guilty and change your mind.

That's not the sign of a loving partner. That's the sign of an abuser.

Yep. Whether he's consciously aware of what he's doing or not, your husband is trying to trap you into financial dependency and then persuade you to get pregnant. As he'll be the breadwinner, he'll decide where your family live ie in the town that he chooses near his family.

That will be a situation much harder to get out of than your current one.

What do your mum and sister think about your husband? They may be too polite to have said anything negative about him up to this point, but it might be worth running by them that indeed you're not very happy or relaxed at the moment and that your relationship with your husband is a key factor in that.

Hi OP.

I've just read the whole thread. I think it seems to have helped you clarify a few things you already knew were off.

You don't sound happy in your marriage and your husband does seem to be controlling too, suggesting you give up work. Then he will be suggesting you ttc, as you are not working anyway.

Take the time on a holiday without him. It may be time to end the relationship. He seems to think you should be grateful for him, rather than be a partnership. I think you could do better.

I agree he will be upset and angry when you try to instill boundaries about his family. Don't let him railroad you, do it anyway.

So much good advice on this thread. Good luck.

He got angry because you won’t give up your job?

He should not be getting angry because you disagree with him - especially regarding a decision about your life. If he does, it’s because he doesn’t see you as his equal and expects you to do as you’re told.

Absolutely do not quit your job! Your mum and sister sound lovely and wise, please talk to them about all of this and ask for their brutally honest opinion.

A totally unsurprising outcome.

stay on here, OP.

Ask your family to be very honest with you about what they think of him.

Please please please don’t leave your job.

It’s your lifeline and it provides health coverage for your counselling.

Lots of good advice on here. Your job is your independence. Don’t become dependent on your DH PLEASE ...... you have to look after yourself and It doesn’t sound like he has your interests at heart...

I am hyper aware of not being dependent financially on anyone because of the way my parents (messy) divorce played out. We don’t have totally joined finances at my insistence because I wanted to keep/build my own savings and also not have to justify how I spent money.
I am wary of the conversation I was intending to have about boundaries etc so I’m just not going to have it. Going to go ahead with just the distance from ILs etc. I don’t know where that leaves me and dh though.....

He doesn't have your back, does he, OP? I don't think a marriage can work well where H and W don't have each other's backs.

He says he does have my back because he’s offering to let me take some time off work and support us because I’m not in a great place. Which I guess is a very nice offer. I just can’t accept it and I wish he would’ve just said ok to that.

I think with time slowly, if your boundaries are there and you distance yourself from IL, you will figure out what you need to do. Hope everything turns out well for you

I think your instincts are going to lead you OK here.

You don't need to have a big conversation with your H unless you honestly think there will be a point to it.

And if you know, deep down, that he's not on your side and he IS going to fight you to be in control and to get his way, then there is no point.

You are better off putting your energy into putting yourself and your DD on the pathway you want to be on. So - some clever distancing, while you think things through.

Remember you don't have to justify yourself for decisions you take because THAT'S THE WAY YOU WANT IT. In fact, I suggest you start pushing harder on those lines, because it will be useful to see if there really is any hope of him showing some signs of being a good man.

'No, I don't want to spend today with your family, I'm going to take DD out with my mum, to X'.

'Why are you being funny with my family, blah blah'

'I'm not - I'm simply choosing to do something different today. If you want to get into an argument about families, I could remind you that you wanted us to spend all of Christmas with my DD away from my parents to be with yours. Stop trying to dictate that I should always want to do what you want to do. That isn't going to happen. I am not happy with that kind of manipulation. It isn't my idea of a good marriage.'

he’s offering to let me take some time off work and support us because I’m not in a great place. Which I guess is a very nice offer

It is not a nice offer though as it is something you do not want and he got angry when you expressed that. It is a selfish offer designed to isolate you further.

I have suffered from depression on and off for many years and found working and having that routine kept me on an even keel even at points when I was very low. Your work covers your health insurance and offers you financial independence please don't give that up. If you do the next step is him deciding that it would be best to move closer to his family, you will be further trapped.

Please confide everything to your mum and sister, they seem to have good heads on their shoulders and very supportive. Ask them what they think honestly, I would bet that they are noticing quite a lot and not saying to avoid hurting your feelings.

Please take care of yourself

It’s not a kind offer if he gets arsey when you turn it down. That’s controlling, not kind.

He think he may be contributing to your problems with your mental health. He doesn't want you better. He wants you reliant and compliant.

You don't sound happy.

He can’t help you in a way that you Don’t consider helpful. He can’t “fix” your problem for you, he can only support you when you decide how you want to help yourself, in a way that works for you.

Op , I think the first you need to do is become slightly independant in your thinking, that way he won’t keep stepping into your personal space acting like your parent.

I think in a dynamic where the wife is co-dependant, the husband becomes like a parent figure rather than a partner.. which sounds controlling... but he might think he is being caring.

There is a book on that concept, it’s called “I’m ok, you’re ok”. About transactional analysis and how at times you can establish a more equal relationship and why at times you voluntarily hand out the power to someone without realizing. Read about it or google the concept.

It massively changed my thinking and I realised I was handing too much power to people around me and realizing that changed the dynamic of people around me.. helped me establish boundaries as I saw myself as an equal and helped me assert them in a clearer way.

It would also be useful to kind of 'sail over' his attempts to twist things and just be very blunt about what you want and just say - but that is my adult decision, I thought partnership was about listening, not manipulating?

'I do have your back in wanting you to take time off work.'

'I've already said that that doesn't work for me. I want to keep my financial independence and my medical cover and I want to keep working - just like you. That is what I know is best for me and my mental health. Having my back means actually listening to me and supporting me as an equal, and making decisions together - not pushing for what you want by telling me it's good for me. That's manipulative and it isn't what I want in a relationship. If you have my back, I'm very pleased. Now we've had this conversation, I will assume that that translates as you knowing why I am going to keep in work and supporting it.'

Also @Lam23 how much of you not being in a good place right now is because of the pressure you feel from your husband and his family trampling your boundaries, how much is due to worry and walking on eggshells around them? It seems that they expect you to be grateful for being accepted by them.

None of the above will change much, mind you. He's incredibly manipulative. But it will be useful for you to get practice in setting out your boundaries while at the same time as sounding him out on some of this stuff. Even if it just helps to let you know you're not on the wrong track - because I will guarantee that once he sees you push back, he will react very badly - he will be losing control.

Try some of these approaches, and I predict that there will very soon be a meltdown - that will be very enlightening, after your previous experience with the 'walking on eggshells'. He'll do his best to put you right back on them.

The absolute ace you hold here is that you can walk away, as he is not your DD's dad. However - I would also say, beware of him trying to use your child against you. He HAS been in her life 'forever', as far as she's concerned - if you do think you might leave, don't 'give it a couple of years' - it would make life much more difficult.

I will guarantee that once he sees you push back, he will react very badly - he will be losing control.

Yes that’s likely and it will help you make up your mind

Start putting more and more measures into place that will allow you to leave this marriage. Because deep down, his grooming brother is just the tip of the iceberg. Sometimes, just acknowledging one major issue makes you realise just how deep the real problems go. You're at a crossroad as far as your life is concerned. You are being groomed and controlled by your DH far more than even the rest of his clan. This is why the idea of him adopting your DD perhaps did not sit right too, whether consciously or unconsciously. He/they are pushing more and more against your autonomy and healthy boundaries. Could you look into options to relocate and move where you would like to be? This would put a physical distance into place. Your DH does not have automatic rights to your DD and the sooner you put into place, the sooner he will fade into oblivion in your child’s memory.

I just feel so, so sad about everything today. Cliche as it sounds I thought I had my happy ending but I think i ignored red flags all round. I’d be devastated to split.