Does this sound like grooming? Please help- step uncle

[Lam23]

Posting for traffic/I’m not sure where else this belongs..
Background if it helps: I’m a mum of a nearly 4 year old. She is very bright, happy, outgoing, completely normal development wise and attends nursery full time. I met dh when she was 2 and they have a great relationship, which has grown over time, i can honestly say I really trust him and she has started to call him daddy which feels natural for us all. Her dad has never been in the picture and we have no contact with him.
I have recently begun to have real worries about her relationship with my dh’s brother. He is 31, unmarried, no kids. Generally quite an immature guy (loves gaming, works minimum wage job and lives in a flat share) but seems pleasant enough since I’ve known him. However, since he met dd at a family gathering probably a year ago, alarm bells are ringing for me more and more and I don’t know if it’s instinct or paranoia. Every time he sees her he picks her ups lot, tickles her, cuddles her, he addresses her as “friend” (seems odd for a 3 year old), he always buys her extravagant presents whenever we see him. She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting- because of all the positive attention he gives her (and maybe because she lacked a “dad figure” the first couple years of her life?) she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me. It seems really excessive that she is so into him and that he had instigated this type of relationship with her- dh’s sister, who has kids, has what I would consider a more normal relationship with my dd and is lovely to her but definitely doesn’t push the boundaries. He has now offered to babysit a few times and I refuse point blank each time which I think dh is a little upset by (dh idolises his brother and I can’t talk to him about ANY of this). It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee. My own brothers don’t do this with my dd and I feel like I can’t put a stop to it, but she is so trusting and I don’t know how to protect her. Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around, the amount of presents makes me uncomfortable and I feel like the physical stuff in public is a possible first step of grooming. Can anyone please help me understand what to do, it’s a really sensitive situation. Does this sound odd? I would appreciate anyone who knows about signs of grooming etc to weigh in. Do I sound crazy?
Fwiw my mum and sister are both teachers and having witnessed the interactions said that their own instincts were kicking in too and that the developing relationship wasn’t necessarily appropriate/he seemed a little over interested in kids.
Please help, this is stressing me out so much whenever we are around family.

I feel soooo confused now as these behaviors would generally be something I don’t mind around my child... :(.

I’m either easily groomed or what?.

Makes sense what people are saying but I feel most people don’t associate that with grooming

What anime is it? Not all of it is as innocent and fluffy bunnies as it looks. Have you watched any of it?

There is a section of anime on most porn sites, surely not all of that is the loli stuff?!?! Otherwise it would never be allowed on there.
If he is into that other stuff it's disgusting

I feel soooo confused now as these behaviors would generally be something I don’t mind around my child.

These behaviours can be totally innocent. But they can also be intrusive power plays to gain physical access to a child under the guise of affection. Most adults would accept that such behaviours are risky and stop when it’s poibted out that bodily autonomy is an essential part of safeguarding

Dora, the thing about grooming is that the person exercises such subtle control that parents/carers let them continue, despite their own uncertain feelings or reservations.

This makes the child being groomed and the adults looking out for her/him doubt their own judgements, instincts and perspectives.

It isn't that tickling is necessarily a 'grooming' behaviour, or offering to babysit for that matter, it's when these behaviours takes place in a context where the grooming adult gradually wields more power over the child and their parent/carer and neither feel able to say 'no', often because they don't want to offend the perpetrator or their 'supporters' - 'oh he does so much and he's great with kids, wouldn't want to upset him/she/he really loves him, he's always buying her presents etc' even though they know that they feel uncomfortable with the dynamic.

I would be dreadfully worried about this.

It will be telling to see what happens when DH realises you are distancing yourself from his family.

i woudl even frame it as i dont like my child being round alcoholics-hes not going to deny that is he-how can anyone defend being arseholed every day

Agree 100 percent with Veterinarii wrt tickling.

PanickAttack I am intrigued by your use of the word 'compassion' here.

No 'compassion' is needed for this little girl. She is not some sort of damaged goods because her mum was a single mother when she met her DH and his family.

The OP does not owe the IL family any debt of gratitude for 'taking on' the OP or her daughter.

A prospective step father or one new to the role is the one individual in a child's life who needs to be scrutinised to the nth degree. You cannot over scrutinise such a person. After the step father, the next people who need to be scrutinised are the family of the step father.

I would suggest you talk to your childcare about it too. Ask them to talk to your daughter about him. See what they think.

I really need to process my thoughts and this thread and then have a good talk with my mum who is coming around tonight (my dh will not be there). Feels like there is so much to think about although my gut is screaming at me even days on from my first post. My MIL just texted me out of the blue asking how “her littl’un” is and even just reading the text made me feel a little stressed because one thing I really want to do is take some distance from them right now. I know it isn’t right that a seemingly innocuous text from an in law should make me feel stressed. Have also been thinking more about stuff dh’s brother said last weekend, about how his “raison d’etre” is “shaping kids” and having influence over them which is why he has worked in a school and in his current role in police. For some reason that comment stuck with me. I wouldn’t want him to “shape” my child knowing what I know about him and his choices. It all seems to be a lot of power. Considering he doesn’t even really seem to like me much, it’s even odder that he is swooping in on my kid.
So many thoughts! Looking forward to downloading to my mum later as she can also explain more about what triggered her gut about this guy/my ILs.

To the pp who said that I just need to limit contact.. yes agreed and that I can start doing now. Distance myself and focus on me and dd.
When world book day stuff dies down I will also do pants talk with dd this week and currently thinking about how to frame the dh conversation (if any is needed at this point)

Considering he doesn’t even really seem to like me much, it’s even odder that he is swooping in on my kid.

Ok that’s a red flag for me.

How do you know he doesn’t like you much ?? And if he doesn’t like you much then he shouldn’t “expect” to be a huge part of your life or your child’s life. Does he act on his dislike ?? That would be enough of an excuse for me to pull away.

his “raison d’etre” is “shaping kids” and having influence over them which is why he has worked in a school and in his current role in police. For some reason that comment stuck with me.

Bloody hell. No wonder it stuck with you.
It's not as if he's interested in the child. He wants them moulded.

Dora just whenever we talk (at an event or even on his family chat) he acts in a superior manner, very condescending and/or constantly trying to one-up me.I have put it down to insecurity but it’s no less annoying. You just get a feeling from some people and we do tend to sort of give each other a wide berth which is why his connection to my dd is extra odd.

"Shaping " kids. I had a friend who encountered a man who liked to "give young [as in young teenager] gay man their "first experience ". I bet he did the sleazy sod. Unsurprisingly, he was going to trial for this and my friend wanted to defend him. [Shudder].

Bellinisurge.. when I was groomed as a young 15yo by an older man, he was very obsessed with the film/book “Lolita” and liked the idea of being a “teacher” etc. Many times as an adult I have looked back and been like “how did I not see how fucked up this was?!” He even took me to see a play of Lolita. It’s awful. I was vulnerable and treated very badly.

I think there is a happy middle course here.

You don't really have any hard evidence that anything untoward is happening here. Some guys are just great with kids - I have a friend who is a godparent to another friend's children and despite being a 40 year old singleton, he's great with them and there's definitely nothing sinister about it. You can let them bond and have the relationship they have, supervised and in a group.

However, if your instincts are jangling, don't risk anything more than this - don't allow unsupervised, single contact, don't take any risks, definitely no to the solo babysitting etc.

You’re getting some excellent advice here OP. I would second reading Anna Salter’s book, linked to up thread. It s not an easy read but it’s sn essential one.
She has done fantastic and much needed research in the field.
Someone mentioned a few posts ago, that Salter gives an example of a paedophile bragging about child abuse in the back of a car whilst the parents were in the front.
I was thinking of exactly that example when you mentioned the family gathering during which hour sister had to ask to come out of the room where the children were playing.
It was a perfect opportunity for him and I think your sister knew it.
Without any of the other red flags, he sounds awful who dit’s ariund pontificating to others about their world view and how they think they’re such an exemplary person they’re in a position to ‘mould’ children. Yeeuuch.

Sorry for all the typos - on phone.
Be strong, assert yourself. You are absolutely in the right. Don’t let them gaslight you into thinking you’re not.
Another post that stood out for me was very short:
“Look out for your daughter. No one else will.”

Considering he doesn’t even really seem to like me much, it’s even odder that he is swooping in on my kid.

Me too. There is enough of concern about power and control - without even the worries of abuse - to pull back. The power dynamics work against you as a mother.’

I felt the same about SIL - much keener on my young DS when she started to dislike me. BIG RED FLAG.

Op.. I’m really invested in this thread now :(. I really want you to feel empowered as a mother.

I want you to know that part of the grooming is to make you doubt your motherhood. Doubt your instincts. Create a rift.

You need to combat this. You need to know that you are your daughters main source of true love... everything else is either fake or an extension of your love. She came out of your womb. Look at her baby pictures, you made that. You brought her up.

You are her anchor, her stability. No one loves her more than you. And you need to express that to her in a way that a child understands. Drown her with love.

Hugs and kisses. Create a hobby with her where she can show off her talent and you can give her healthy attention. Have a secret language between you and her so she can feel special. Read her every night.

And when strangers come and undermine you, you will find that you will fiercely defend that bond you have with her.. and that bond with you, will alone scare anyone from manipulating her..

Your mil asked you how her little one is?

Answer : “oh she is doing great, has been drowning me with kisses all morning”.

Don’t let them think they’re more special than you are.

It’s not competition, it’s you reclaiming your spot for the sake of your daughter.

She is craving love and attention and someone is offering her a fake type...

It’s absolutelt not your fault, you are being the best parent I’m sure. But your daughter needs extra dose of that if she is vulnerable

It’s part of nature that kids crave love and attention all the time, so that it can be a reminder to busy overwhelmed parents to give them time..

But some abusers take advantage of that nature for other goals.

Plz plzz don’t relax and think “oh I am so relieved she is getting fatherly affection from her step dad”.

Don’t ever think this replaces the bond she needs to have with you.

While she might be “satisfied” with any form of love and attention, yours is the only true one she “needs” so very much.

There is nothinnng more defeating to a narcissistic manipulator than to know that their target is not isolated and has strong support. And that they’re secondary.

Make double time for her that your DH or her brother does. If she gets interested in a cartoon, make double effort to watch a different one with her and make it your thing.

Reclaim your daughter back. Her innocent soul isn’t up for grabs.

I don’t know what the end goal of your BIL is. I don’t know if he is a pedofile.

But I do know that he doesn’t deserve to have a bond with your daughter that compromises yours.

Anyone who doesn’t try to earn my trust before trying to have a strong bond with my DS at this vulnerable age, makes me doubt their understanding of parenting and what kids need... they probably don’t understand childhood.. they’re probably messed up... and so I don’t want them near my child unsupervised

Dora you’re right. Your posts are slightly hard to hear but I really need to hear them. In the last 6 months I have radically changed our lives in terms of my working hours and availability to hers and it makes me realise how much I was missing out on with her before. We now do ballet every week, starting swimming soon and we play together, go places just the 2 of us and I know our bond is stronger than it’s ever been. But somehow through my own past pnd/tiredness from work/issues with dh I have probably made her crave a little more affection/attention and she’s always been a full on kid, dawn til dusk she is on the go and I only really feel like I got my energy back in the last year or so. It’s not to say poor me but just to say I get where you are coming from and I need to redouble my efforts with dd so at the very least she would be able to tell me anything and I can protect her. It kills me when she races off to MIL or BIL at family events and tantrums at not wanting to be with me, it doesn’t seem right and it feels like their connection was forced by a lot of gifts etc which made her eager to see them. It’s easy to be regretful or angry in hindsight I didn’t tackle it immediately but maybe I did feel grateful? I had a lot of shame about my situation and personal baggage. I was vulnerable too.
Thank you again, everyone x