Does this sound like grooming? Please help- step uncle

[Lam23]

Posting for traffic/I’m not sure where else this belongs..
Background if it helps: I’m a mum of a nearly 4 year old. She is very bright, happy, outgoing, completely normal development wise and attends nursery full time. I met dh when she was 2 and they have a great relationship, which has grown over time, i can honestly say I really trust him and she has started to call him daddy which feels natural for us all. Her dad has never been in the picture and we have no contact with him.
I have recently begun to have real worries about her relationship with my dh’s brother. He is 31, unmarried, no kids. Generally quite an immature guy (loves gaming, works minimum wage job and lives in a flat share) but seems pleasant enough since I’ve known him. However, since he met dd at a family gathering probably a year ago, alarm bells are ringing for me more and more and I don’t know if it’s instinct or paranoia. Every time he sees her he picks her ups lot, tickles her, cuddles her, he addresses her as “friend” (seems odd for a 3 year old), he always buys her extravagant presents whenever we see him. She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting- because of all the positive attention he gives her (and maybe because she lacked a “dad figure” the first couple years of her life?) she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me. It seems really excessive that she is so into him and that he had instigated this type of relationship with her- dh’s sister, who has kids, has what I would consider a more normal relationship with my dd and is lovely to her but definitely doesn’t push the boundaries. He has now offered to babysit a few times and I refuse point blank each time which I think dh is a little upset by (dh idolises his brother and I can’t talk to him about ANY of this). It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee. My own brothers don’t do this with my dd and I feel like I can’t put a stop to it, but she is so trusting and I don’t know how to protect her. Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around, the amount of presents makes me uncomfortable and I feel like the physical stuff in public is a possible first step of grooming. Can anyone please help me understand what to do, it’s a really sensitive situation. Does this sound odd? I would appreciate anyone who knows about signs of grooming etc to weigh in. Do I sound crazy?
Fwiw my mum and sister are both teachers and having witnessed the interactions said that their own instincts were kicking in too and that the developing relationship wasn’t necessarily appropriate/he seemed a little over interested in kids.
Please help, this is stressing me out so much whenever we are around family.

I do think dh will argue that his dB hasn’t done anything that would trigger suspicions about him

And you can argue that you'd rather be safe than sorry.

She's not his kid. Remember that.

I think when I agreed to share costs (nursery breakfast club, etc- I pay for her clothes, toys, treats though for the most part) for dd I unwittingly gave up some control. His mum refers to her as “her grandchild”, he has repeatedly said we should share parenting (it used to cause a few rows) and I do feel like despite her not being his child he/family have managed to railroad me. I am a bit cross at myself for not being stronger. Tbh I didn’t really know how to navigate parenting I was a young single mum and I guess I thought maybe that was a good sign and also we were getting married.

To b honest lam I would say that also sounds like ideal step parenting behavior ....

The only issue is the dynamic between you and your husband and you and them... everything he is doing would be ideal if it’s in accordance to what are you communicating to them.

Are you having problems communicating your expectations? This could be an issue when faced with many new things quickly.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing that the grandmother says the girl is her grandchild.. that’s lovely for your daughter.. the only issue is even with a natural grandmother and uncle, some boundaries need to be respected...

You could’ve faced the same problem with natural relatives.. you still need to communicate boundaries.

I think comments about your husband in here by pp have been rather OTT. Communication between both of you needs to improve

The point about him not being a biological parent regards protection. Instinctively, he is more likely to defend his brother more than the child, no matter how well he treats her.

But, I do think you will have to talk to him first before we make assumptions.

What happens if and when you have children with him.

Lweji I honestly think we are blowing this out of proportion.

That is not true, I know many men who wouldn’t accept their brother being called a pedophile pervert without evidence...

I personally would’ve observed the brothers behavior and seen him as an ideal uncle.. it’s not clear to the eye...

Mothers instincts are different. Plz let’s stay objective

Apologies. I definitely want to stay objective and make sure I tackle this right with dh.

Lam sorry I didn’t mean you.

You need to have that conversation with DH, but I just feel a lot of pp here making decisions based on assumptions to be on the safe side and I feel your DH is getting overly scrutinized...

If it were any other way, pp would’ve said, why doesn’t DH treat your daughter with compassion? Or why does the grandmother make it obvious that your daughter isn’t naturally part of her family?

Clearly they’re making effort... whether in the right or wrong direction, NONE of us know.. we are basing this on your instincts.

You need to set up boundaries but you need to do so in neutral terms, not accusative.

You can protect your daughter from any harm even before reaching a conclusion about whether that uncle is right in the Head or not.. your boundaries should be precautionary measures and not reactive.

So even if he turns out to be sick minded, you would’ve long long protected your daughter from being his prey.

That’s why it would be tough to frame it to him and I get the feeling I need to be more direct.

You won’t be able to ‘persuade’ your DP or his family. You are more effective in not going to many of his family events, by being more distant, by having lots more control yourself. Just do it. Don’t argue it. Say clearly you’d like time with DD doing something one to one when he goes to his families. If he argues just repeat.

The anime thing is creepy as fuck. There’s quite a significant crossover between men who like anime, and men who are into some seriously deviant sexual stuff.

And besides, the idea of a grown man trying to get a three year old girl into his “fandom” is beyond weird and inappropriate.

Yes don’t share costs. You now need to claw back your a different family model than you have led others to feel. Basically your DP and his family, with your willingness to be ‘led’ and have given him the green light to parent - this has led to them taking over.

Your DD is still young so you can change this around.

I still it’s a bigger problem than her uncle. His family are going to want and have access to your DD as their own, for her whole life. And if they are way too dominant now, it’ll get worse as DD grows up and they will undermine you then as they do now.

I completely understand OP.

Keep doing what you're doing and have a frank discuss with your partner.

Did you say you have a brother? Would you allow him to babysit if he offered? Paedophiles aren't necessarily overfriendly - a family member (deceased now) was a paedophile and he apparently couldn't stand the company of children and certainly gave that impression.

If you wouldn't allow your brother to babysit then you should make this clear to DP. I had a conversation with my partner of a similar subject and at first he was offended. Until I made it clear that I feel the same way about my own family.

People may think I'm crazy but I don't really care. There has been enough child abuse by family members to make me cautious enough to not care what others think.

Lam23 you've done nothing wrong - groomers are very, very skilled at what they do. ANYONE can get sucked in.

You've identified what's happening very quickly really, and it seems that you're using the ideas on this thread to clarify your own thoughts and instincts.

The approach I would take with dh is to make it ALL about your dd. Don't even mention the brother until he does. So say that you're keen to develop dd's relationships with your side of the family, that she develop healthy boundaries, can say no to adults, that she grows up confident and assertive, that she knows that you always have her back, that you want to decrease the number of events that she goes to with him family (three in a weekend is excessive) etc.

If he argues with that, then it's very clear that his loyalties don't lie with you and your dd.

Than you can go from there. Fuzzy's line of 'oh, sounds like we want different things' is an excellent one to help you keep secure in your own boundaries.

Regardless of the approach, I'd cut the anime thing completely. Not appropriate for her age at all. You can easily justify it with how it portrays women/girls and how sexualised it is. It's not cute in a child like way.

And keep on cutting any "special" interest with his brother.

If he insists, then it's a good reason to cut contact.

This might be a stupid question but is he into anime by any chance?

The hypothesis is not stupid, but if you had read the thread you wouldn't have asked the question.

No, don't delete. The insight into anime should be useful for the OP to stop the fandom asap.

Honestly don't have him even in the same building. In Anna Salter's book she describes an interview with a perpetrator who molested children while their mothers were present. Including in the back seat of a car when the parents are in the front seat. They earn the "love" of the child through gifts and befriending them. In the interviews they say "You know when you've got the kid - the child has a look in his eyes"

OP, this has gone far enough. Read the book. Recognise how these perpetrators operate and why nobody can possibly believe they would do such a thing. And never let him within a mile of your DD again.

You’ve had some great advice here OP but I wanted to add some specifically re: tickling. It’s great that you’ve had the PANTS talk but I strongly suggest that the tickling should be tackled too. It’s a form of pseudo-fun touching that seems to be societally acceptable but in fact can leave a child in a situation where they are helpless and being touched, whilst appearing to enjoy it because of the involuntary giggling. It can be incredibly disempowering and undermine any awareness of bodily autonomy.
This article explains it well
www.thelist.com/108528/tickling-kids-okay/

I’d strongly discourage tickling in any interactions

May be upsetting

I have had experience of working with groups of paedophiles, and heard some of their conversations . They target single mum's via online dating sites. They befriend young families. I've heard them say you have to groom the parents before you can get to the children. No child is too young. It's worth playing the long game to get what you want.

@VictoriaBun agreed, that's a common theme in Anna Salter's book. Even gives accounts of parents that were so in the perpetrator's thrall that they visited him in prison while he was serving time for molesting their own daughter. This is why so many get away with it. They build a wall of people around them who couldn't possibly believe any allegation

I am concerned by a few things upstream. This:

And if you want another angle to see if it sinks home with DH, I suggest that you frame it as instilling boundaries that protect the brother - in that, while his actions may be innocent (and few of us believe that but your DH might listen if you present it this way) that she's at an age where a chance remark to nursery or school about her uncle could trigger a child protection investigation and that that could be very detrimental to his career in law enforcement.

and this:

Perhaps you can come up with a story about how in nursery they were teaching them about safeguarding and grooming and the daughter starter mentioning to you about the uncle and going into details that might be misinterpreted and jeopardize the poor fella and how as a young child she doesn’t distinguish.

While it's tempting, please don't start making things up in order to get your husband to agree with you on this. It's layering dishonesty on top of your very real concerns, and cannot end well. Be honest, be concise, and if your husband refuses to listen recognise that as the red flag that it is.

Wow, OP, I'm so sorry you are going through this. In a good marriage, even if your DH was initially shocked and horrified and defensive about his DB, you would feel like eventually you could talk it out to a satisfactory conclusion that is in your dd's best interests. It honestly sounds like your DH isn't ready for marriage or parenthood. And his brother sounds like a very very sinister character. I wish you all the best in your discussions.