WIBU?- Roadside shrines

[Arnoldthecat]

This is more of a ..would i be unreasonable....to not want a roadside shrine directly outside my house/garden gate/in close proximity..?

Lying, I never said it was a class thing, that was other posters.

@Piggywaspushed your post to me makes no sense and your copy and pasting makes no sense! It's not the legal aspect that people were questioning!

That comment from BRAKE indicates it would involve a lot of agencies and time, in order to come to an agreement about a shrine outside someone house.

• mediator
• bereavement officer
• police family liaison officer

I find it rather strange that if someone wanted flowers removing from the front of their house, they would need to jump through so many hoops. Also the outcome may still be that the flowers / tributes are to remain where they are.

YADNBU I hate them.

They look awful and I don't get why they are allowed, how can family/friends just 'appropriate' a bit of pavement/verge etc and decide that's theirs from now on?

And, as others have said, people die, for instance, in hospital, you don't get people queuing up to tie a bunch of flowers and a tatty teddy to bed 6, bay 12 on Glossop Ward do you?

howwillwedeal I haven't said people can't go there and grieve-the thread is about shrines that people don't want, not about stopping people from visiting the place where they died.

Again 'Brake' say there should be no time limit on people's grief.

Of course there’s no time limit on grief. But that doesn’t mean that people do or should have the right to grieve via shrines outside people’s houses or on the public road. Bereavement comes to us all in one form or another.

But that doesn’t mean that people do or should have the right to grieve via shrines outside people’s houses or on the public road. for an indefinite period of time that should have said

Why are Brake the boss of all of us anyway? They’re a charity/lobby group are they not. They’re just stating their view. There’s no obligation to accept it as a given.

I'm in agreement with those who say that sodden teddies, scarves, etc and the cellophane from flowers which are just left become an eyesore. A single bunch of flowers taped to a lamp post is perfectly fine and not obstructive.

I do like the memorials someone mentioned upthread whereby they are both memorials and a reminder for drivers to take care because of the accidents which have already happened on that road. It seems a good idea if any further deaths can be prevented.

I would say that the only time the cellotaphs are done with respect for both those grieving and the general public are where a business or school, say, permits one on their land for a limited time. The one at Sunderland AFC's car park for Bradley Lowery for instance, which was very touching, as they can manage expectations of the family and friends for when it will be cleared away. Schools often seem to provide a memorial bench or garden for children who died whilst still a pupil there, which is a nicer ongoing memorial than a cellotaph. But that's just my opinion.

Do people think that if a shrine isn't erected that people are not grieving? Haven't experienced loss? Pathetic. It's an epidemic of the 'look at me, I'm grieeeeving' culture.

Exactly!

Piggywaspushed

Do you feel that it's right that someone who lives next to the shrine has no say in it being there?

Is it fair that the people who made the shrine / add things to it it have their wishes and wants put first, even if it's distressing to the person who lives there?

Genuine question, i'm not trying to be goady, just proposing a situation from the other side.

There are several on the very bad Haverhill to Cambridge A1307 road some went totally over the top but have in the main now been replaced with simpler ones like a photo and a sort of marker stone, all in very sad as they were all young teenagers.

The council and or highways people were very concered woth visitors stopping beside the road understandable seeing they didn't want the risk of yet more deaths:-(

I am genuinely astonished by the number of people on this thread who say they would go out in the middle of the night and remove someone else's memorial. I find that shocking

I wouldn’t in the immediate aftermath of an event happening, and I wouldn’t if it wasn’t right outside my house, but yes if there were rotten fading flowers in cellophane with faded ribbons/mouldering teddy bears/saggy balloons months later then absolutely I wouldn’t want them there and would move them. It’s just completely unnecessary.

No, ice but I do think these things are way more temporary when in public streets than many suggest.

I can fully accept that some people might feel uncomfortable with a constant reminder. That said, somethign fairly traumatic must have happened outside their house, which will be awful for them.

bumder, I'd be OK with that. But I'd speak to someone first.

but I do think these things are way more temporary when in public streets than many suggest.

For every shrine that is removed soon after, there will be many others which remain for years after the event. I was referring to those, as I doubt anyone would complain about a temporary shrine. However, someone is more likely to complain when it has been or year or more. What would you suggest those who live nearby do if they find the shrine upsetting, but those in charge of it refuse to remove / relocate it to a more personal place?

somethign fairly traumatic must have happened outside their house, which will be awful for them.

Exactly, and surely a shrine would be a constant reminder of this event?

Also, thank you for taking the time to debate this in a sensible and non confrontation way.

It’s a bit of a class marker isn’t it? Flowers wrapped in plastic and ready bears heaped by the roadside and left out in the rain to get all tatty. Heartfelt messages “I luv U chaz u nvr shud hav ben taken”

Seriously, I've never understood why classism is one of the few acceptable "isms" on MN (along with ageism).

Thanks ice. I do understand people find them upsetting. I am fine with that and understand why you wouldn't want to be reminded. Although , of course, it is worse for those who grieve. There was a very moving bit in the recent drama with Martin Clunes about the poor girl who was murdered. The parents went to the site andswa ll the flowers and were so moved. The the site was shown a few weeks later with a solitary bunch of old flowers. That made me so sad.

I just cannot agree with those who are arguing against them purely on 'taste' grounds.

saw all the flowers that should say.

Some of you are such stuck up shits.

Removing the cellophane wrapper from flowers and disposing of it in a bin is not a class marker. It is, however, an arsehole marker.

I understand why people do this, but after a short while, I do think they should be removed.

One along a main road near us is pretty much just wilted flowers, which are replaced annually. But there is also a teddy bear tied to the fence. At first it was quickly bedraggled because of rain / road spray, but they replaced is and put a plastic bag over it so now it just looks like a sad suffocated teddy.

An actual shrine, like they have by the roadside on Greek islands? I remember seeing these and thinking they were a far better way to mark the spot, but if I recall, there was some controversy about them and the Authorities were trying to have them removed. That was a long time ago though.

I'm working class. I don't like the plastic fantastic ones at all.
I am having weird mental images of people sneaking to their front gates in the dead of night with a bin bag though.

@IceRebel. Is your bike memorial across the road from a large hospital? Maybe we live in the same city!

This is all about context and depends on the circumstances for me. Near me a little kid got killed. There are toys, flower and cards there, as well as hand-painted pictures, protected in plastic sleeves by the class mates. Yes, it may look a bit tatty but I see an outpouring of grief and everyone trying to come to terms with it. A dear friend of mine died, young and in pretty shocking circumstances. I personally did not attach anything to that impromptu shrine, it’s just not how I personally grief but again, I see some take comfort in it. They were planning to release balloons. I was biting my tongue to beg them not to due to environmental damage that does but really did not want to upset her grieving relatives. Luckily, another close family member told them that this would not be what the friend would have wanted, as a passionate animal lover. When I pass by these shrines, it often makes me feel bit melancholic and sad. I would not really have an issue ‘aesthetically’. But I would feel differently though for example, in the case of infamous criminal that got killed during his attempted burglary and his outsized family created a shrine, which is a mockery to his potential victims. That would not sit well with me. Or say, a rapist got killed in self-defence and his relatives would want to leave flowers and dedicate a shrine to him.