Is it offensive or am I being silly?

[CocaColaaa]

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

No,...certainly not and neither does anyone else on here including those who think they will be offended

It's not actually about if they're offended (although that wouldn't be nice), the reason racism and similar things are bad is not because they cause offense, it's because they cause actual harms, when you think a group is "less" or "different" you treat them differently. It is a bit different in this situation to other characters (as few British Kids will ever have any interactions with the group.), but that doesn't make it okay, and negatively stereotyping any group makes kids believe it's okay.

*Intention is everything. To mock or ridicule...wrong."

But the treatment of Native Americans in Peter Pan is intentionally mocking and ridiculous.

Can only white middle class children dress up as Harry Potter or Hermione?

it's because they cause actual harms, when you think a group is "less" or "different" you treat them differently

Well said

I wouldn't as I'm not sure I want to perpetuate the idea through the generations that that is what native Americans look like.

But, what about a mermaid instead?

I don't believe that dressing up as another culture, nationality, colour, race is in itself remotely offensive or racist.

Omg
Can some of you hear yourselves?
We’ll be advocating book burning next 🙄

WTF is it with all of the ridiculous comparisons? Is it really so difficult to see why a Hermione costume and a Tiger Lily costume carry very different connotations? There's no comparison. And no, there's no comparison between dressing as crocodiles or dogs and dressing as stereotypes of Native American People.

some posters really don't understand irony

which would explain some of the posts

@intothedeep - the English upper classes have a really ghastly time of it nowadays. Sometimes their children are not automatically admitted to study at Oxbridge because of an awful thing called “meritocracy”. It’s an absolute nightmare.

FFS No one has mentioned book burning. I'm not in favour of erasing all books that carry offensive and outdated stereotypes and ideas but that doesn't mean that we should continue to celebrate them without question. It's only right that we expose them to the light, and discuss their flaws and failings and the harm that they may have caused and can still cause.

I don't think it's appropriate. As the represtations of tiger lily as a native American are stereotypical. Girls can dress as male characters.

I’m anti censorship

Can only white middle class children dress up as Harry Potter or Hermione?

Well their ethnicity is never mentioned in the books, hence why Hermione is played by a black woman in ‘Cursed Child’. Easy to do when they’re not real.

Regardless, what people like yourself keep missing the point about is the fact this isn’t about race generally, it’s about taking the culture of people who have been subjected to oppression, abuse and even genocide and turning it into a caricature or stereotype. Then expecting that culture to understand we’re ‘just appreciating’ them. What patronising bullshit.

I made a point of reading the Little Black Sambo series with my dcs in the 70s. At that time, it was the only pre-school book with a black child was a hero. I don't think there are any white characters. It's set in India during the Raj, I think, and he saved his mother's life by getting her mangoes to make her better. I thought it would be good to have a little diversity.

They loved them. Such a pity that racists adopted the name of the main character as an insult.

Of course, dcs should be allowed to dress up as Tigerlily. What sort of message are we sending out when characters are air-brushed out of books because they belong to a different culture? It's so patronising when people appoint themselves to protest on behalf of other cultures. I've been to the Navajo Reservation. One of their high school's football teams is called The Redskins. The ordinary Navajo isn't nearly as precious about this sort of thing. They are quite capable of speaking up for themselves.

Isn't Mary Poppins an extreme stereotype of British? I am not British birn and it seemed like it

So if you're anti censorship @Lovingbenidorm then it would be ok for people to wear swastikas in public?

There is no problem with your DD going as Tigerlily. Just like there's no problem with a black/Asian girl going as little red riding hood, Mary Poppins, etc.

This! ^^

If you dressed up as Peter Pan, would that be offensive? If not, why not? Why is it offensive to dress up as an Indian person, but not offensive to dress up as a British person? Genuine question.

We’ll be advocating book burning next

This is the level of wilfully under-thinking we're dealing with on this thread.

Its as if half the people on here have never heard of colonialism. Comparing the appropriation of native American dress to an Asian Red Riding Hood. I've seriously heard it all now.

I keep seeing people stating that Native Americans aren't 'precious' about people dressing up as Native Americans or using the names Redskins, but there's a plethora of articles written by Native Americans that say otherwise.Of course they aren't a homogenous mass and there will be Native Americans who have no issue with such things if you look at the controversy over Pocahontas, TigerLily and the Washington Redskins it's clear that many do find it offensive and harmful. Also Native Americans 'reclaiming' the term 'redskins' is very different from non Natives using it.

Completely agree @Thymeout, but apparently being patronising to other races and cultures is absolutely fine.

I hardly think that promoting a far right, murdering, torturing political party can be compared to outrage at a little girl dressing up as Tiger Lily

As for Little Black Sambo, yes he may be a positive character in some respects but the books and illustrations are still riddled with stereotypes. Google image the books and cartoons and look at how crude and racist many of the illustrations used are and how they conform to traditional racist depictions of black and Indian people. Some of the characters are so grotesque that they barely look human. Plus positive stereotypes are still harmful.