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Original poster

Is it offensive or am I being silly?

999 replies

CocaColaaa · 02/03/2019 15:57

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

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StinkyCandle · 02/03/2019 18:55

So you'd get your kid to dress up as Little Black Sambo, then?
I have honestly never heard of it until now, doesn't seem so popular in my birth country, so I don't know!

DoneLikeAKipper · 02/03/2019 19:00

Why can't dressing up as a native American be viewed as a celebration of that culture?

To play devils advocate. Imagine if tomorrow, a country invaded Britain, completely took over and left us living in tiny pockets of communities with very low standards of living. Then imagine that country (or any one that stood by and watch it happen) a few years down the line thinking how fun it is to ‘dress up’ like a ridiculous stereotype of a British person for Halloween/school events/fancy dress. Would you find it endearing ? Would you think ‘ah, that’s nice, they want to celebrate us!’? Or would you think ‘haven’t these colossal twats done enough to shit over everything we are, without making a cheap event out of who we are as people?’.

SparkiePolastri · 02/03/2019 19:02

I have honestly never heard of it until now, doesn't seem so popular in my birth country, so I don't know!

I bet you wouldn't, because you know it doesn't feel right.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/03/2019 19:03

I dunno - as a Scot I get positively standby when I see some arse wearing a ‘see you jimmy’ hat (like the Asian guy in the news just now - I call racism on that one).

MyNewBearTotoro · 02/03/2019 19:04

If the stereotype in the book is offensive then surely that is a problem with the book. Presumably the children will be reading and exploring the book as part of the theme for the day they dress up and whether any little girls dress as Tiger Lily or not won’t change the fact that an offensive sterotype is being shared with children. I don’t see how a child dressing up as a book character some see as offensive is any worse than the teachers promoting and sharing the origin of the offensive stereotype.

If it’s fine to read the book with primary aged children then it’s fine to dress up as any of the characters. Captain Hook is disablist but no doubt there will also be plenty of children hiding a hand up their jumpers and holding a hook out of their sleeve.

I would let DD dress up as Tiger Lily, but maybe beforehand do a little bit of exploration with her around the Native American culture and what it means and try to enrich her understanding of it so that she recognises Tiger Lily as more than a stereotype. IMO that would be more helpful than banning the idea of the character altogether.

NotACleverName · 02/03/2019 19:04

Why can't dressing up as a native American be viewed as a celebration of that culture?

Because their garments, war bonnets in particular (which seem to be popular with culturally insensitive thickos) are not fashion items HTH.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/03/2019 19:05

Tell The Kardashian (I don’t know which one) and Beyoncé.

abcriskringle · 02/03/2019 19:06

Blue dress and blue ribbon in her hair and she's Wendy. Easy. I used to dress up as Wendy all the time when I was little - she was my absolute favourite!

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/03/2019 19:08

She is soooooo wet though!

Poloshot · 02/03/2019 19:08

Don't see why it's offensive

BertrandRussell · 02/03/2019 19:10

Who would dress their child as Little Black Sambo?

Limensoda · 02/03/2019 19:12

Would you think ‘ah, that’s nice, they want to celebrate us!’? Or would you think ‘haven’t these colossal twats done enough to shit over everything we are, without making a cheap event out of who we are as people?’

I think you should ask some actual native Americans that question.
I have met some and I can assure you they wouldn't be offended by a little girl dressed as Tiger Lilly....because they have more intelligence than you give them credit.
Don't be offended on their behalf and don't pretend you know what they think today.

YeOldeTrout · 02/03/2019 19:15

Sambo seems quite an admirable character, actually. Feisty, plucky, clever, inquisitive, resourceful.

KatyMac · 02/03/2019 19:15

Why not a mermaid? (one of the mermaids in Peter Pan is thought to be Ariel's mum)

Limensoda · 02/03/2019 19:16

Because their garments, war bonnets in particular (which seem to be popular with culturally insensitive thickos) are not fashion items HTH

No, that's not helpful at all.
No one was talking about wearing the costume as a fashion item. It's dressing up as a character in a book for world book day.
Hope that fucking helps.

SparkiePolastri · 02/03/2019 19:16

So you speak for all Native Americans, Lime?

Where I live, there's an indigenous population, and I know many of them would be offended by the colonising population coming in dressed up as them.

The thought of even doing it makes me cringe hard.

sirfredfredgeorge · 02/03/2019 19:22

Who would dress their child as Little Black Sambo?

I'm going to answer on why that is different - as no-one who actually thinks the native American stereotype is fine is.

Characters from books which are no longer published and no longer taught in schools are more inappropriate than characters that are still taught in schools. The teaching of the text (without criticism) validates the view that it's an appropriate dress up choice.

So no, the people won't support dressing up as little black sambo, but are fine with characters that they don't realise are negative stereotypes.

Limensoda · 02/03/2019 19:23

So you speak for all Native Americans, Lime?

No,...certainly not and neither does anyone else on here including those who think they will be offended.

donquixotedelamancha · 02/03/2019 19:24

Isn't there a crocodile in Peter Pan? It would be a great costume, and I don't think crocodiles would be offended.

I identify as a crocodile. Speaking for my people, we despise Peter Pan (I mean who eats a clock?) and would be very offended at someone dressing up as the stereotyped 'crocodile' character from that book. If we had opposable thumbs we'd certainly be picketing the party.

greenpop21 · 02/03/2019 19:27

No I wouldn't dress up as a Native American. It's very inappropriate.

Can't think of any reason why this would be offensive. You would not be degrading or deriding Native Americans so what is the issue?

StinkyCandle · 02/03/2019 19:29

I bet you wouldn't, because you know it doesn't feel right.

again, haven't read it, so can't give an honest reply. I am however guessing that most people pretend outrage because it's a black character, and the fake and patronising protective tone is racist and oh so unpleasant from these "superior beings". Hmm

I'll have to read the book to get an opinion, so far I can't see the outrage.

Is it offensive or am I being silly?
PickledLimes · 02/03/2019 19:30

Many of the Native American journalists on this Native American news site seem to have major issues with Native American stereotypes. Another article on Tigerlily here. newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/keene-why-fix-tiger-lily-why-can-t-we-just-let-her-go-KUal288VfU6OwlAh9nhsbg/

BasiliskStare · 02/03/2019 19:30

@BertrandRussell " @PickledLimes (or may I call you Amy?) i’ve been asking about Little Black Sambo since the beginning of the thread- no response."

I did post upthread and I am old enough to remember Little Black Sambo ( and the tigers melting into butter ) - I suspect my son would never have come across this & therefore would not have occurred to him , as a particular character - but would never think similar was acceptable. Nor would his junior school. But then remember a book about the 3 golliwogs ( Was it Milly Molly Mandy ? ) Obviously all entirely unacceptable.
I don't remember all Peter Pan characters ( except Nana and Wendy )

Interesting he ( DS) never had ( and is now 22) an Indian feathered headdress ( which as mid late fifties I remember some children having when I was young)

Limensoda · 02/03/2019 19:34

Intention is everything. To mock or ridicule...wrong.
To dress as a character in a book for WBD.....Not wrong.

We need to ban all books, films and plays, even classics that may now be deemed offensive to women or other cultures or classes.

KickAssAngel · 02/03/2019 19:36

I'd be wanting to raise this with the school as it
a) really restricts kids and isn't part of the point to encourage their imagination and interest in books?
b) has far more options for boys than girls
c) does raise the problem of non-Native Americans dressing up as them, without actually giving any kind of opportunity to discuss it or reach a solution.

I know it's just one day but surely for one day a school could try to not promote sexist, racist stereotypes?

(And, of course, Disney does it, but Disney is a huge world-wide conglomerate out to promote profit. Schools are not meant to have the same motivations.)

I once worked in a school where the head tried making all the staff go with a Harry Potter theme. None of us were keen. Then we thought about all wearing the cloak of invisibility and just not being there for the day. She changed her mind and let us decide for ourselves.