Is it offensive or am I being silly?

[CocaColaaa]

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

Really? I have felt bullied for having an opinion. I have been sworn at and had my words twisted. Nobody has done that to you, as far as I can see. You have just droned on and on, without being willing to engage with anyone who doesn't 100% agree with you. In my book that is certainly overbearing and disrespectful. There is a little gang of you waiting to pounce on anyone who suggests a more nuanced discussion. You don't listen properly. You are bullies, and you are not advancing your cause one iota.

It’s only an insult when it’s used to describe self righteousness - of which there’s a plethora on this thread. You’d all totally earn my respect if you’d just own the way some of you sound instead of being so self defensive.

Well if you feel so put upon by people disagreeing with you and challenging you, feel free to report to MN.

Oh, my shoulders are broad. I was educated by nuns so I am pretty immune to vicious tirades.

Yet you claim that you feel bullied by a perfectly average MN debate.

You most certainly shouldn’t have been sworn at. That was disgraceful.

However, I do wonder whether the person who suggested that not wanting children to dress up as racial stereotypes equated to wanting to ban/burn books can really complain about having their words twisted.....

And still the piling in continues ...

“You’d all totally earn my respect if you’d just own the way some of you sound instead of being so self defensive.”

Do you mean you want people to change their minds and agree that dressing up as racial stereotypes is fine? Or are you just policing the tone? In which case, can you also police the way those of us who think this sort of thing is important are disparaged, mocked and in at least one case told to fuck off?

“vicious tirades.”

Eh?

You know perfectly well what I mean @Bertrand. Who’s being disingenuous now?

And beating!

Probably missed this, but what does your daughter want to be? Does she want to be Tiger Lily or is this something you have chosen for her?

I do agree that it wasn't acceptable to swear at you. Did I do that? I hope not and my sincere apologies if so.

“You know perfectly well what I mean @Bertrand. Who’s being disingenuous now?”

I don’t, actually. But then I don’t think caring about stuff like this is being smug, or self righteous or any of the other things you said. I think it’s really, really important.

How on earth could Othello be played by a white actor?

What, like Richard Burton or Orson Welles?

Obviously it should no longer be done but clearly it is indeed possible and has probably been done on many occasions.

Sorry- as I said I saw Donald Sinden as Othello so I do know that white actors have played the role in the past-I should have added “now”!

I think you are being disingenuous, Bertrand, when you imply that anyone who disagrees with you is a closet racist.

And I think it was you who originally referenced a white actor, Burton?, playing Othello. SoupDragon, I disagree with 'obviously it should no longer be done'. I look forward to a future where anyone can play anything. It's OK now to have a black actor playing Hamlet - and Glenda Jackson is about to play Lear. There's an all-male Swan Lake. But it has to go both ways, or minority groups are still being treated differently. There's just been a retrospective outcry about a white actor playing Oddjob in a Bond film. Should have been Korean.

As a veteran of many a march in the 60s and 70s, my advice - and that of every contemporary I've spoken to, is don't sweat the small stuff. It's a distraction from serious issues and alienates those you need to convert.

“. I look forward to a future where anyone can play anything. ”

So how would you stare Othello with a white actor? (Genuine question)
Would you have him as a white person in a predominantly white society? Or rewrite to remove all the references to his colour?

Everything Bertrand Russell said - spot on.

It's a distraction from serious issues and alienates those you need to convert

thymeout you said this earlier on the thread and I responded to it, which you’ve ignored, in relation to #metoo. Why do you think there’s a hierarchy of problems and it’s only worth dealing with the ‘big’ ones? Why is it not worth calling out minor sexual harassment, regardless of how common it is? Why is worth ignoring cultural appropriation to only deal with racial assaults?

Bullied/bullies
Beating
Vicious tirades

Could you be any more hyperbolic, @CarolinePooter? (Sorry if you feel that's yet another attack, I guess.)

Bertrand no filbert7 was the sweary one.
I also feel intensely strongly about unfairness, racism and misogyny. I know your heart is in the right place. I would like to have a nuanced debate, but all I'm seeing on here is people being harangued.

Notaclevername. Actually yes, I have been shouted at, bullied and beaten by nuns. A little debate on mumsnet, in the grand scheme of things, is pretty well a walk in the park for me. My point was in response to previous poster suggesting I should report the thread if I felt threatened. I do not feel threated. I hope I have explained this clearly to you.

“I would like to have a nuanced debate, but all I'm seeing on here is people being harangued.”

Blimey. I honestly don’t see the debate could be any more nuanced, frankly. There have been loads of points of view expressed. Unless by “nuanced” you mean “agreeing with you”?

Threatened of course typo