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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is it offensive or am I being silly?

999 replies

CocaColaaa · 02/03/2019 15:57

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

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Ribbonsonabox · 04/03/2019 09:31

I think it depends on how you do it! Dont use any sacred items such as a full headdress. Just the brown dress and a headband with a single feather on it is probably fine....
My answer would be different if we were in the US. Ithink the big issue with it in the US is that native Americans were forcibly prevented from expressing their cultural heritage over there... and to watch white Americans now using that heratige as a bit of fun for themselves must be very upsetting.
Theres less of an issue here... not that there hasn't been a lot of racism in this country.. but this was not the centre of the storm for Native Americans really...

BertrandRussell · 04/03/2019 09:32

Actually, I think this thread reeks of disingenuousness.

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 09:33

You know what they say assuming does, and what exactly is wrong with wanting people to consider Native American issues and the prejudice and issues they face? Why is education a dirty word? I have a lot to learn myself and I have been learning throughout this thread. I hope to continue to do so. Why is expanding one's knowledge a negative thing?

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 09:38

It's no more acceptable for white British people to dress as Native Americans than it is for White Americans. British 'settlers' and British colonialism are some of the reasons why Native American peoples have suffered terribly and continue to suffer and struggle. We played a huge part in destroying their people, land, rights and cultures No, we don't get to wash our hands of this issue.

TeaforTwoBiscuitOrThree · 04/03/2019 09:39

Oh gosh, what a world we live in.

Alsohuman · 04/03/2019 09:40

I didn’t assume anything so referencing a tired bit of doggerel doesn’t really help. There’s some interesting and enlightening information here, shame it’s spoilt by the wokeness.

Norda · 04/03/2019 09:46

I would be a bit reserved about it, considering the Native American depictions in Peter Pan were pretty racist/offensive anyway...

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 09:46

I don't know what book that director read but it certainly wasn't Peter Pan. Again here is how Tiger Lily and her tribe are described. It really couldn't be clearer that they are supposed to be Native Americans and decidedly not white.

On the trail of the pirates, stealing noiselessly down the war-path, which is not visible to inexperienced eyes, come the redskins, every one of them with his eyes peeled. They carry tomahawks and knives, and their naked bodies gleam with paint and oil. Strung around them are scalps, of boys as well as of pirates, for these are the Piccaninny tribe, and not to be confused with the softer-hearted Delawares or the Hurons. In the van, on all fours, is Great Big Little Panther, a brave of so many scalps that in his present position they somewhat impede his progress. Bringing up the rear, the place of greatest danger, comes Tiger Lily, proudly erect, a princess in her own right. She is the most beautiful of dusky Dianas [Diana = goddess of the woods] and the belle of the Piccaninnies, coquettish [flirting], cold and amorous [loving] by turns; there is not a brave who would not have the wayward thing to wife, but she staves off the altar with a hatchet. Observe how they pass over fallen twigs without making the slightest noise. The only sound to be heard is their somewhat heavy breathing. The fact is that they are all a little fat just now after the heavy gorging, but in time they will work this off. For the moment, however, it constitutes their chief danger

One important result of the brush [with the pirates] on the lagoon was that it made the redskins their friends. Peter had saved Tiger Lily from a dreadful fate, and now there was nothing she and her braves would not do for him. All night they sat above, keeping watch over the home under the ground and awaiting the big attack by the pirates which obviously could not be much longer delayed. Even by day they hung about, smoking the pipe of peace, and looking almost as if they wanted tit-bits to eat.
They called Peter the Great White Father, prostrating themselves [lying down] before him; and he liked this tremendously, so that it was not really good for him.
“The great white father,” he would say to them in a very lordly manner, as they grovelled at his feet, “is glad to see the Piccaninny warriors protecting his wigwam from the pirates.”
“Me Tiger Lily,” that lovely creature would reply. “Peter Pan save me, me his velly nice friend. Me no let pirates hurt him.”
She was far too pretty to cringe in this way, but Peter thought it his due, and he would answer condescendingly, “It is good. Peter Pan has spoken.”

Around the brave Tiger Lily were a dozen of her stoutest warriors, and they suddenly saw the perfidious pirates bearing down upon them. Fell from their eyes then the film through which they had looked at victory. No more would they torture at the stake. For them the happy hunting-grounds was now. They knew it; but as their father's sons they acquitted themselves. Even then they had time to gather in a phalanx [dense formation] that would have been hard to break had they risen quickly, but this they were forbidden to do by the traditions of their race. It is written that the noble savage must never express surprise in the presence of the white. Thus terrible as the sudden appearance of the pirates must have been to them, they remained stationary for a moment, not a muscle moving; as if the foe had come by invitation. Then, indeed, the tradition gallantly upheld, they seized their weapons, and the air was torn with the war-cry; but it was now too late.

CarolinePooter · 04/03/2019 09:47

Absolutely spoilt by wokeness and rudeness.

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 09:47

So giving a shit about racism is wokeness now. That's ok, I'll happily wear that badge.

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 09:48

Yes, 'because typing Yawn' in the middle of a discussion is oh so polite.

CarolinePooter · 04/03/2019 09:50

But you are being tedious and boring.

BertrandRussell · 04/03/2019 09:52

I think, on balance, I would rather be smug, self righteous and woke than dismissive, disingenuous and mocking.

CarolinePooter · 04/03/2019 09:53

That is your choice.

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 09:55

Am I? Thank you, I'm flattered.

CarolinePooter · 04/03/2019 09:56

You've obviously worked on it ;-)

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 09:58

It has taken many decades of study. I'm so happy that it's paid off.

CarolinePooter · 04/03/2019 09:59

Good for you!

ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/03/2019 10:08

I'm the least woke person ever but even I can see there's a huge amount of dickish behaviour and blatant racism on this thread. What the fuck is wrong with you people??

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 10:10

I'd ask how long it takes to earn a Masters in 'Dismissing racism and treating it as a joke' but I sadly doubt that I could reach such great heights.

CarolinePooter · 04/03/2019 10:13

Racism is a bad thing. Bullying is a bad thing too.

BertrandRussell · 04/03/2019 10:16

Who’s bullying who?

You do know that disagreeing is not bullying, don’t you?

PickledLimes · 04/03/2019 10:16

Thank goodness that there's no evidence of bullying on this thread then.

NotACleverName · 04/03/2019 10:17

I'd rather be tedious and boring than willfully ignorant and borderline racist but ymmv I guess.

(I do wish people would stop using the term "woke" like it's an insult, too. Good indicator of who's a massive bell end, though.)

Pumperthepumper · 04/03/2019 10:24

That’s true, CleverName. They’re the same twats who use ‘snowflake’ too.

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