Is it offensive or am I being silly?

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Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

I'm feeling guilty because we bought DD a little alpine dress that she really liked to match the traditional dresses the staff at the hotel were wearing.

But I can see in a way it's like a Morris dancing costume.

It’s also better to be safe than sorry. There are loads of other things to dress up as!

I had a red and white sporty flamenco dress when I was little that my grandma brought back from Spain. We also had some leather ladenhosen knocking around but I have no idea where they came from.

Hmmm If someone from NZ decided to dress as a stereotype of an Australian - think corks hanging from hats, some sandpaper and a cricket ball - that might be a bit mean, even provocative (although not completely undeserved). It wouldn’t be racist though.

I'm thinking maybe this is racist too really? But because immigrant descent Australians were historically the oppressors of the native born, not the oppressed, it's ok to stereotype them?

I see the white saviours are still at it. Didn’t David Lammy putting you in your place even give you pause for thought over your patronising offence taking on behalf of another race?

A flamenco dress is a costume for Spanish people as well!

I dunno - I watched with my gob hanging open as a black guy was racist to a ME guy.

I had no idea who had the ‘upper hand’ there in that interaction - there is no ‘upper hand’ when it comes to racism - it’s all shit.

No shades if grey and no ‘it’s ok because he is white/black/Asian and back in the day his ancestors opressed the other guys ancestors’. If we continue to think like that then we will normalise and legitimise racism and refuse to see it as such - shitting on someone because of their skin colour.

Re the Irish. They have been horribly oppressed for centuries. Yet on St Patrick's Day millions of other people dress up and have Irish themed parties. Are the Irish offended? I doubt it.
When female politicians or royals go on state visits, they often wear saris or national costume. Does this offend the host countries? I doubt it.
Would you let the children dress up as Romans? They were brutal imperialists, and kept slaves.
Would you let the children dress up as Vikings? They did a fair bit of violence. Indeed they stole Irish people and sold them as slaves.
Would you let the children dress up as any British Monarch since 1066, since they had invaded and seized this country?

Women as a class are oppressed everywhere. TODAY. They are also incredibly negatively stereotyped, but it's difficult to change that. People frothing about wrongs done by people long dead to other people long dead should perhaps dwell on that.

I would also dress my dd as tigerlilly - dd1 actually had an Indian costume from ELC that she wore alot when she was 4/5. On that note how do people feel about pocahontas costumes? Children like to dress as their favourite characters, how do you explain it's ok to be Cinderella but not ok to dress as pocahontas? Surely that's offensive.

And all this nonsense about it being wrong to be girly is ridiculous. My dd1 happily wears boy or girl clothes but dd2 wouldn't entertain anything remotely boyish, loves dresses etc. It's their choice which I'm glad they have. Everyone is different, having the confidence to be yourself is what we should be encouraging our children to do.

I didn’t know that (about flamenco dresses) when I was little - I assumed girls wore frilly frocks and quite frankly I was a bit jealous. I was only little!

Because it's world book day and the theme is Peter Pan?! Tiger Lily is one of the characters the children have been told to dress as?

Have you not read this thread?

Multiple posters have outlined why dressing up as Tiger Lily is not the same as dressing up as any other Native American character because Tiger Lily's character is essentially just an offensive stereotype of all Native Americans. Tiger Lily has no personality or meaningful storyline, she is objectified and presented as subhuman to all the white people in the book. There is nothing good about her character. She is literally just a collection of stereotypes. Dressing up as Tiger Lily is basically the same as saying "I'm dressed as a Native tonight" because that's how she's presented in the book and film. As a pretty Native and nothing else.

Doing Peter Pan was a fucking terrible idea anyway, it's one of the most racist Disney films ever made(I know it's for WBD but most children will know it by the movie). I think it was a shitty idea to pick the movie filled with racist stereotypes and songs about 'killing the Indians'

My Indian friend insisted I wore one of her (traditional) outfits to an event. I felt a bit daft but I made her wear a kilt to a school event so we were quits.

I was in Spain in half term and was amazed at the number of new and second hand flamenco dress shops and how busy they were with locals.

People frothing about wrongs done by people long dead to other people long dead should perhaps dwell on that.

Native Americans are being oppressed today. And many(including Native American posters on this very thread) have outlined how they find it offensive for people to dress up as a character full of racist stereotypes when there are Native Americans being oppressed currently. Perhaps you should dwell on that?

I see the white saviours are still at it. Didn’t David Lammy putting you in your place even give you pause for thought over your patronising offence taking on behalf of another race?

OK, here are some Native American people talking for themselves about how they feel about Native American costumes:

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/07/tiger-lily-peter-pan-native-american-stereotype

Ruth Hopkins, a Native American activist and writer, said she struggled “to find a way that Peter Pan could be ‘fixed’ so as not to offend Native peoples”. Hopkins told the Guardian the portrayals of Native Americans in Peter Pan vacillate wildly between “practically cavemen” and “the hipster version where we’re naked, sexy and wearing little more than a headdress”. Tiger Lily’s flaws begin with Barrie’s writing, she said, adding that it was long past time for culture to treat Native Americans as a diverse, vital and important part of society.

About the preponderance of white actors playing non-white roles, she was blunt: “If non-Natives dress up as Native people, it’s redface.”

www.potawatomi.org/native-american-halloween-costumes-debase-cultures-communities/

Appropriation is about power, said Tesia Zientek, tribal member and Citizen Potawatomi Nation Department of Education director. “It’s about the power of another culture or group of people to remove items with significant cultural meaning out of context and use them despite another group of people saying, ‘Please don’t do that.’”

During assimilation in the 1800s, Native Americans were discouraged or even punished for wearing or attempting to use the items of cultural significance now found commonly in Indian Halloween costumes. “It’s harmful, and it hurts to know that they are getting to use things that our ancestors were not allowed to use, and use them in a way that it is inconsistent with our culture,” Zientek said. “While I don’t think individuals intend to be harmful, their actions are.”

www.teenvogue.com/story/native-halloween-costumes-are-offensive-support-native-designers-instead

"By wearing Native costumes, people are contributing to the mindset behind Native oppression: the idea that we're alien, subhuman, and somehow less deserving of the respect they give their own culture. They're playing into the imperial narrative of Native extinction, reducing us to being a fantasy of the past that's fit for a costume. And they're projecting the idea that indigenous attire is comical and out of the ordinary, when it is actually sacred and just as normal as Western clothing is."

One thing. Anyone describing reasonable discussion as “frothing” is automatically wrong and can safely be ignored!

Are Native Americans dead? I hadn't realised that, and apparently neither have they. They seem to think that they're alive and that the discrimination, perception and treatment of Native Americans is still very much an issue.

Yes if we pre censor everything our children come across and burn most of English Literature that will make a tremendous difference to their lives.

Imo you all are over thinking it.
She’s just a child wanting to dress as a character. It’s that simple.
None of this was an issue when I was a child because it’s not an issue.
I’ve seen on Facebook even hairstyles are cultural appropriation, it’s a load of shit and you all know it.

There's a difference between reading literature and discussing it and dressing up as a stereotype.

We discuss Barbie but don't dress up as her.

Yes not wanting people to dress as a TigerLily = burning books. Even a bloody kangaroo couldn't make that leap.

Ignore the rogue a.

If you can’t do Tiger Lily you also can’t do Tinkerbell (women are hysterical and jealous) or Wendy (women are mothers and housekeepers). That leaves you with Mrs Darling and Nana.

Well if the books are so dreadful, then surely they should not be allowed. So you may just as well burn them?

It’s not that much of a leap.