Is it offensive or am I being silly?

[CocaColaaa]

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

“It’s better to be safe than sorry” 🙄
It’s a child dressing in a costume wtf are you talking about?
And yes it was kind of my friend but she doesn’t need my permission or anybody’s to dress up as a gypsy. I’m proud of my roots and not offended and we are one of the most hated races in this country, it’s not even seen as a bad thing to hate gypsies and the racial abuse and hatred hasn’t changed much for hundreds of years.
It’s a flipping costume! It’s dress up. If you step back and just see it for what it is, a child in dress up. People’s minds have been warped and everything now is racist. Do you really think kids look at a character and think 🤔 should I dress up as this or is it inappropriate. No! They see and love the characters and want to be them. Ffs.

Tinkerbell was an absolute bunny boiler. I thought she was a bit batshit crazy when I was a child and never shouted ‘I believe in fairies!!!!’ at pantos in protest.

Are we "allowed" to wear this t shirt from Primrose Park?

www.shopatanna.com/collections/whats-new/products/fivet14t-shirtinwhite

I thought we were having quite a nice civilized discussion about what can be quite a difficult subject.

For the record, nobody wants to burn any books. You can all make your own decisions about how you dress yourselves and your children. Nobody will do anything about it.

A few people have been asking nuanced questions about what is offensive, not offensive etc and a few of us have offered some perspectives which everyone is free to take or leave. If you have incredibly fixed ideas about this I have no intention of trying to change your mind. Mostly because I suspect it would be a pointless exercise.

I like your analogy about Barbie btw lonely.

Why is it that the “pc gone mad” brigade are either simply rude or hyperbolic? Or sometimes both?

Er no. I think the marsupials are undergoing a severe case of envy again. I have no intention of clearing my bookshelves of the many classic works that are on them, but what I won't do is pretend that many of them don't contain harmful, offensive and outdated stereotypes or attempt to continue to feed those stereotypes by dressing up as Tigerlily or similar characters. Modern works can also contain the same but I'll concentrate on the classics again. I can enjoy them as great or good works of literature while also being willing to criticise them and being aware of the harm they may cause.

And as for your earlier point about women. I am a feminist and I'm very much concerned about women's rights, but I fail to see why that means that I can't care about other issues too, especially as women from marginalised minorities face even more discrimination, and many of the classic stereotypes about Native Americans particularly affect Native American women.

Why is it that the “pc gone mad” brigade are either simply rude or hyperbolic? Or sometimes both?

I was wondering this. It's understandable why people get worked up about sexism, racism, ageism, homophobia etc.

But why do people get worked up about others trying not to be biased or discriminatory ? Is there an equal right to be passionate about defending racism?

It really is that much of a leap. I don't like my neighbour but that doesn't mean that I wish him any harm. I don't wish to see him thrown out of his home and flogged in the street. I don't like the depictions of Native Americans in Peter Pan but I don't want to see it thrown on the fire either. In fact I actively chose to read it recently but I read it quite differently to the way I did when I was a child. I'm much more aware of its flaws and that's no bad thing.

This is like the idiots who said that people will want to marry goats if gay marriage was legalised.

OP ... no matter who you dress your Dd up as you WILL offend someone. Because everyone goes out of their way to be offended these days. The professionally offended will always find something to whine about.

Dress her up as Peter Pan and watch the professionally offended start banging on about trans/gender stereotyping.

It’s a character in a book ffs. It’s not like you and your DD have invented the character!!

Well I don't think anyone is going to stop you in the street and handcuff you if you wear that tshirt but would I wear it? No. Headdresses/war bonnets have spiritual significance to many tribes and the arrangements and feathers have meaning. They have to be earned. It's just another example of Native American cultures being used and abused.

People’s minds have been warped and everything now is racist

You're being sensationalist. Not everything is racist. But a character designed to portray a negative stereotype of an oppressed race IS. So dressing up as that character and thus reinforcing those negative stereotypes also is!

That shouldn't be difficult to understand. I mean, I'm no rocket scientist but I get it. It's the same reason why golliwogs and blackface are offensive.

No, not everything is racist, but the manner in which Native Americans have been depicted throughout history and continue to be depicted most certainly is. I'll be the first one to agree that sometimes the Tumblristas take things way too far, but that does not mean that racism isn't real and isn't still very much an issue.

“People’s minds have been warped and everything now is racist“

Nope. Racist things are racist. Just as they always have been. Sorry if that offends you!

@PickledLime re the t shirt (which I think is beautiful) and other things, why can't you see the positive side...people celebrating the American Indian culture?

So many excellent, fluent, well written and observed, thoughtful posts on here - and the usual wall of ‘they’ll be burning books next’ ‘gollywogs were LOVED characters’ ‘it’s just a costume’ ‘pc gone MAD’ - I’m actually embarrassed for the posters who keep peddling this garbage in response to so many rational responses.

I’ve also learned a lot from this thread so thanks very much to the culturally-sensitive posters 👍

Peeree- if you’re celebrating the culture by wearing the t shirt, do you know about the cultural traditions of that particular head dress? Who wore it and why? Who made it? What area/tribe does it come from?

Dressing up as tiger lily is not the same as black face. At all.

@BertrandRussell.

You are being ridiculous. I don't feel the need to know the answers to those questions because the t shirt is a beautiful piece of art IMO. This is going too far and there is obviously no reasoning with the eternally offended brigade.

Rspu3 why not?

Just going to stop commenting everyone has there own opinions.
Now I am illiterate and a pc gone mad brigade.
Just thought I’d give a point of view from someone who has a background as I do. Some people get offended some don’t in ALL races and cultures.
I wouldn’t get jumped up about a little girl dressing as esmerelda it’s a character.

It isn't celebrating Native American culture. Showing a bastardised version of a culture(Many, many cultures in this case considering there are approximately 562 NA tribes) and taking its images out of context with no regard for meaning and spiritual significance is anything but respectful. I'm Scottish if someone dresses up like a Braveheart extra with a ginger wig, puts on a fake Scottish accent, drinks whisky and eats a deep fried Mars bar. I would find it disrespectful. They wouldn't be celebrating my culture. They'd be making a fool of it, and I would be anything but flattered, and the harm caused by that is so much less than the harm caused by Native American stereotypes.

It's fine.

I haven't read the full thread but I can't believe this is still being debated!

I thought it was accepted now that these stereotypes are not ok but clearly I was wrong.

Also, if the outfits of Native American people have significant religious/social/cultural meaning, why would people think it's ok to stick any old feather on their head and say "look at me I'm dressed like them".

No wonder there are still stories of drunken nights out with people wearing black face paint if this thread is anything to go by.

“I don't feel the need to know the answers to those questions because the t shirt is a beautiful piece of art IMO. ”

If you’re wearing it as a piece of art, then of course you don’t. If you’re wearing it as a celebration of Native American culture the of course you do!

@PickledLimes "approximately 562 NA tribes" ha ha...that sounds more like an exact number.