Is it offensive or am I being silly?

[CocaColaaa]

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

it's offensive to dress as a different gender, no

It certainly can be. There was a thread on MN a few years ago about men dressing as women in a stereotypical way and making fun of them as part of a fundraiser. Damned right, it was offencive.

Here's a helpful little hint. If you are a member of a class of people that historically has had privilege and that continues to have privilege, you need to be very careful about how you might choose to portray people from a historically oppressed class.

JFC, I hate these threads.

On one hand, there are posters being thoughtful and kind and explaining why a 'thing' needs to be re-examined in light of modern attitudes and understanding.

On the other hand, there's the typical bunch of 'the world's gorn mad - can't do anyfink' types spouting their racist BS. I bet they're all also applauding Stacey Dooley for her photo with the lil black child and her charidee work in Africa.

Dressing your child as a racist trope isn't a good thing to do, but it's clearly beyond the comprehension of many as to why it is an issue. When I see problematic costumes, I just assume that the wearers are plain ignorant. Seems a fair enough guess to me.

No of course not.
Because the name , originally gollywog, which was originally a fictional character in children’s books (like a rag doll, 1895) became a form of abuse around 1940 and now, is clearly offensive.
I remember my dad collecting the Robinson Jam badges.
He was in no way racist.
I really think that there is no comparison to a literary character.
That said the way we are going everything is offensive to someone, oddly the people who get offended are often not from the racial/cultural background they are defending.
I STILL maintain that TigerLily is a perfectly acceptable character to portray on NBD.

Seriously OP, if you are up still, forget about Tiger Lily and go for a mermaid. There are supercute mermaid outfits on amazon and maybe you could make one if you are crafty. Lots of necklaces and bracelets and your DD will be really happy. Read an extract from the mermaid lagoon in the book and go with the flow. Not going to start on the cultural appropriation thing. Am ready for bed - just need to finish my G&T

It’s offensive to dress as a different gender?????
Fucking hell.

Love a good drag queen me

Whatever you do don’t go to see The Book of Morman
Lovingbenidorm I suspect you might have seen the book of Mormon and taken away the literally opposite message to that intended!

Also - sigh - drag queens aren't usually offensively trying to reduce women to stereotypes. Some men in dresses for a laugh, are trying to reduce women etc etc.

is it so hard to understand that the same thing can mean different things??

Wow Thindragon!
Tell me, what do you think the message of BOM was?

I suspect you’re being a little patronising here 🤨

That was kind of your friend to check with you Rspu3. It shows she cares about how historically oppressed minorities are portrayed. I think the OP also shows some good instincts by asking this question. I personally hope she errs on the side of kindness.

I’m not sure I understand why people can see that gollies are offensive but think other negative racial/colonial stereotypes are not. I know better than to try and convince people who are determined to ensure they continue though. OP asked. I answered from the perspective of someone with skin in the game, so to speak. The OP needs to be guided by the information she’s received and her own values from here.

It’s offensive to dress as a different gender?????

What I said is that it can be. My example was a group people from a historically privileged class (men) dressing up in a stereotypical manner like people from a historically oppressed class (women) and making fun of them, like strutting around with swinging hips and speaking in high squeaky voices, supposedly all in the name of a good cause. It's demeaning to women and therefore offensive.

Op has stated that her daughter isn’t white.
And is asking if white characters are acceptable.
This is utterly ridiculous!

Are we talking about Monty Python or something here SenecaFalls?

Oh!
If op’s Daughter isn’t white is it ok if she dresses as TigerLily?

I dont know im still undecided, I dont think anyone will be offended about a child dressed as tigerlilly on a peter pan themed WBD at school

As evidenced by this thread, some people will find it offensive. So then the question is, are you ok with offending some people if lots of other people think it's ridiculous that those people are offended? Does that make you feel ok about upsetting some people? Like, it's ok because loads of other people think the offended group are stupid and over-sensitive so fuck them?

It seems to me like it would be nicer to just choose a costume that offends zero people! And that is quite possible, despite what some people want you to think.

Op please tell us what you decide to do and the reaction you get from school.
I still say TigerLily is ok

I don't think it's offensive (but clearly I don't know/understand the reasoning?) but then again I also don't think white people dressing up as black people is offensive but what do I know!!

Also kids used to play/dress up as "cowboys and Indians" I'm obviously missing something but could someone tell me why it's not offensive to dress as a cowboy but it is as an Indian? I'm so baffled by this.

@Bellatrix14 but WHY? If you are genuinely dressing up as Pocahontas? Why is that offensive? I've read the thread but I still literally don't get it. You are being that particular character? And also, is dressing up as something not sometimes seen as an ode to that person/culture/whatever? Is it not flattering? I just don't understand. Like I don't understand if I went to a party with a "dress like someone beginning with B" theme and I loved Beyoncé, would it be offensive for me to go as her because I'm not black? I don't understand, I must be really uneducated!!! I personally have a soft spot in my heart for red indians based on that someone painted one for my name, said he was someone who watches over her, I sill have the painting and a part of me still believes despite it being woo and probably nonsense, but I imagine I will be told in some way this is offensive?? I got told I was offensive on here for saying "having a paddy" once and the only connection I can make is with the Irish (which did not even occur to me!!!) and yet all the Irish poster said nonsense they weren't offended!

Painted one for my late nan* not name

I think dressing up as another race, particularly one that has been so severely oppressed, is a shit thing to do.

Dressing up as a specific character that happens to be another race is a bit more of a grey area, and is okay in some instances, but Tigerlilly is a racist stereotype in herself so absolutely not okay to dress up as her in my book. I concur with others that it'd be like dressing up as a golliwog.

The thing is, if you send your kid in dressed as Tiger Lily, a fair number of people will be silently judging you as -

• at best, out of touch, or
• at worst, a bit thick / uneducated / actually racist.

Or they'll think that you don't care if people think you're possibly racist / stupid.

So it pretty much boils down to - if you're OK with that, crack on.

As there are likely no Native Indians at the school, none will be harmed by it. So it's just you people will think badly of.

Also kids used to play/dress up as "cowboys and Indians" I'm obviously missing something but could someone tell me why it's not offensive to dress as a cowboy but it is as an Indian? I'm so baffled by this.
White Europeans 'settled' North America. North America was already inhabited by indigenous people; predominantly Native Americans in what is now the US and First Nations people in Canada. The vast majority of indigenous peoples were killed, either directly through violence or indirectly through diseases introduced by the Europeans. In all, 90-95% of indigenous Americans were killed, leaving communities devastated. They have since been oppressed and discriminated against.

Where I am (Canada), the white folk decided that we simply couldn't abide indigenous people continuing to have their own cultures, so made a concerted to wipe out their cultural practices. Children were stolen from indigenous families and placed in government funded boarding schools, where they would be prohibited from engaging in any of their cultural practices, and be absorbed into the dominant white culture. The children were neglected, abused and thousands died.

This happened for several generations. The last of the residential schools closed in 1996. Indigenous communities continue to be deeply affected by the trauma. Much of their culture is lost forever.

'Cowboys and Indians' is a genre of white European culture, where the white folks are the goodies and the 'Indians' are the baddies. The 'Indians' are often portrayed deliberately negatively and, even when that isn't the case, as stereotypes that parody indigenous cultures (and don't attempt to be an accurate depiction).

All but wiping out a race, attempting to destroy their culture, then deciding it's fun to dress up as that race, complete with bad parodies of their sacred cultural dresses and practices, is pretty awful.

I don't see how you can compare it to a white person dressing up as a cowboy.

And if 'red indians' really are close to your heart, I'd suggest that you stop calling them 'red indians'.