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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is it offensive or am I being silly?

999 replies

CocaColaaa · 02/03/2019 15:57

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
PickledLimes · 02/03/2019 23:26

You obviously don't find those attitudes all that appalling if you're happy to continue to feed them.

Lovingbenidorm · 02/03/2019 23:34

My point was that you can find offence to someone in ANYTHING

Lovingbenidorm · 02/03/2019 23:35

It’s not solely a racist argument surely?

TacoLover · 02/03/2019 23:43

Why can't dressing up as a native American be viewed as a celebration of that culture?

Why the hell would you want to 'dress up' as a Native American?? Would you consider it acceptable if I showed up at a fancy dress party saying oh yeah, I'm dressed as a white person tonight?

Lovingbenidorm · 02/03/2019 23:45

No, I wouldn’t if you were portraying a literary character.
It’s like all that fuss about the little girl who wanted to dress as Moana at Halloween

Original poster
CocaColaaa · 02/03/2019 23:45

Its not dressing up as a native american though, Tigerlilly is a character in a book .

OP posts:
Lovingbenidorm · 02/03/2019 23:46

Sorry, yes I would

Lovingbenidorm · 02/03/2019 23:50

Exactly Coca

nocoolnamesleft · 02/03/2019 23:50

No it isn't dressing up as a Native American. It is dressing up as a character in a book who is based on an offensive stereotype of a Native American.

SenecaFalls · 02/03/2019 23:53

My point was that you can find offence to someone in ANYTHING

But we are not talking about ANYTHING. We are talking about harmful racial stereotypes perpetuated against a deeply oppressed people, who still experience significant oppression.

You might also want to research the concept of historical trauma and how it is perpetuated.

TacoLover · 02/03/2019 23:54

Its not dressing up as a native american though, Tigerlilly is a character in a book

It's basically the same thing. Tiger Lily is basically an offensive, stereotypical caricature of a Native American. How anyone can consider that as a 'celebration of culture' is beyond me.

Lovingbenidorm · 02/03/2019 23:56

Whatever you do don’t go to see The Book of Morman

Lovingbenidorm · 02/03/2019 23:59

Another thing to think about
How are stereotypes created?
If you saw a Native American tribe in 1900 and there was a young girl in that tribe, what do you think she’d look like?
How would she behave?

Lovingbenidorm · 03/03/2019 00:20

So that’s feathers and a headband then Coca?!

DozyDotes · 03/03/2019 00:35

OP, please don’t dress your daughter as this character. Just find a mermaid or tinker bell costume instead.

Can you imagine how some people would feel if you dressed your child as a golly? Would they think you (and by extension your DD) ignorant? Cruel? Thoughtless? A golly is just a character from an Edid Blyton story after all. Nobody is suggesting books be burned but most quite rightly understand that it isn’t appropriate to celebrate outdated ideas that need to stay in the past. If anything these stories should be used to illustrate changing attitudes. Not to ensure the continuation of ignorance.

This is no different. You have had a Native American mumsnetter explain to you why the portrayal of Tiger Lily is problematic and nothing to be celebrated. Can’t that be enough? I’m Australian Aboriginal. I can assure you there is real pain, ugliness and cruelty in the celebration of colonial stereotypes and that the consequences are experienced in the present day.

Rspu3 · 03/03/2019 00:50

Children should be allowed to dress up as what they want. In general kids don’t see skin color and just love characters from films/books.
Think the worlds gone mad tbh

Lovingbenidorm · 03/03/2019 00:55

Hurrah!
Well said Rspu3!

Lovingbenidorm · 03/03/2019 00:59

I think Rspu3 has summed up over 300 posts in a very succinct and sensible way

DozyDotes · 03/03/2019 00:59

Genuine question Rspu3 and Lovingbenidorm - Would you be cool with dressing a child in a golly costume?

keepforgettingmyusername · 03/03/2019 01:00

Are we supposed to pretend non white characters don't exist then? Don't acknowledge them, admire them, aspire to look like them?

Rspu3 · 03/03/2019 01:06

A friend of mine actually asked me if I was ok with her dressing as esmerelda for Halloween. I told her to get a fucking grip and laughed, why would I care she’s a character?
Yes I am a Romany gypsy and I couldn’t give two shits if someone dresses up as a gypsy and yes the stereotypical one with the jewels on there head and a crystal ball 🔮
Think it’s being too sensitive and to ask if it’s ok for children to dress up seriously?, I loved Pocahontas when I was a child and had the dress up clothes for Christmas I also had Cinderella what is wrong with that? I don’t get it. Gollywogs are different, if a child painted thereself brown/black that’s a whole different issue. We’re takking about a costume fgs

Reallyevilmuffin · 03/03/2019 01:07

Dressed as a native on a night out. Was a roaring success. Maybe a bit more touchy about natives stateside? Who knows.

PregnantSea · 03/03/2019 01:11

People get offended by lots of things, and some will be offended by this.

Don't buy into it, it's nonsense. She's a little girl playing dress up, let her wear what she likes.

If it's offensive for someone to dress as a different culture then surely it's offensive to dress as a different gender, no? You get yourself tied in hypocritical knots when you start going down this road...

Thindragon · 03/03/2019 01:13

Depressing thread.

No, you can't "find something to be offended by in everything". If you stick with real, rounded representations of different humans, avoid language, ideas and stereotypes that betray the fact that you haven't bothered to think about anyone's experience but your own, you will be fine.

@Bertrand has it right with the Professionally Unoffended. I am offended- when I see people thoughtlessly saying stuff like "Normal people don't mind it" as someone said earlier in this thread.

The rules are super simple. Don't punch down. If someone is of a community you already know is different from yours, don't stereotype them or use their "Normal, often been oppressed for this" as your "'Hilarious dress-up".

Tiger Lily. Ffs. Teachers must have an absolute tin ear for cultural nuance. I think she's not far off Little Black Samba tbh.

Original poster
CocaColaaa · 03/03/2019 01:14

My dd isnt white, is it only ok to dress as white characters then? I dont know im still undecided, I dont think anyone will be offended about a child dressed as tigerlilly on a peter pan themed WBD at school. I get what people are saying so I will think about it some more.

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