To think this cafe needs to rethink their message to customers?

[GunpowderGelatine]

Seen this on Facebook today from a cafe -

So we are a dog friendly cafe which is completely acceptable by health and safety as long as the dogs don’t cook your food or enter the kitchen 😡 so don’t give us a hard time if you don’t like dogs because we like dogs better than humans - note don’t give Vicky a hard time over happy dogs because Vicky will always defend the dogs

Now I have a bit of a fear of dogs and wouldn't expect to see one in a cafe and I'd be a bit pissed off if I paid good money for food and drink only to be bollocked by "Vicky" if I didn't like a dog in my face AIBU to think it's not a good message to tell your paying customers that they come second to another species?

Please do not dramatise things @SchadenfreudePersonified it's pathetic.

After your anti-dog rants, you accuse me of dramatising things?

Yep and I bet they loved running around and shrieking and having fun as much as all children do. Don't get me wrong, there's a time and a place and children need to learn how to behave in different social situations but some people here seem to think that every bit of joy and fun and creativity should be forced out of children. Clearly there's a massive difference between a child running around and having fun and a dog off the lead causing a nuisance and potentially danger to others. Anyone who says otherwise is clearly just being provocative for effect.
I've never loved an animal anyway...not in the way that that I know love. I've had pets and cared for them, wanted the best for them but it's not love

Totally agree. The dog we had was very special, he lived a very long and happy life. I cannot equate it to the love I have for my now adult children.

I love that Vicky came on the thread.

It was obvious to me that there was a backstory here. I worked in customer facing roles a lot...that's probably what makes me an animal lover tbh.

I love a dog friendly cafe, especially when on holiday. It's amazing though how many people come in, see dog sleeping by my feet gasp, grab their child, scowl or tut. Its dog friendly! The clue is in the sign on the door, the dog water bowl outside and the dog biscuits on the counter! I totally understand how Vicky has needed to be very direct!

I'm always surprised by people on these threads mentioning pubs. Maybe it's just where I live but I thought dogs in pubs was normal. In fact it would be very odd to enter a pub here and not see a dog.

Hahaha. Just don't go to the cafe then? What's the actual point of this thread, other than the usual weekly MN hysteria about dogs?

I find these threads really amusing, as I don't feel strongly either way. I have 2 DDs I adore, I love my nieces and nephews (I have 9!), and I enjoy other people's children in small doses. I like dogs, though I wouldn't want to own one (I'm a cat person).

Some of you love dogs, some of you love children and others love both.

But what I really don't understand is, why the angst? Why does it appear to upset some posters if randoms on the Internet can't stand dogs/children??

I'm just baffled that people think taking dogs out or having dogs is even remotely the same as taking children out of having children

Me too. It just isn't the same. For one you can't leave your (younger) children at home alone. It's not a choice. There are still plenty of places that are dog free so you can't take your dog there. People aren't usually allergic to children. Children are people, just like all of us. It's ridiculous to suggest that dogs are anything like the same.

This cafe is near where I live and it's a lovely place. Vicky isn't 'an unpleasant person', so just doesn't take herself too seriously! I don't have a dog and still go. Get over yourself.

It baffles me how some people can’t understand that other people like different things to them even after people have explained why! Life must be challenging when you expect everyone to like the same things.

@LaFreaka I know. These threads pop up now and again. And there's usually one or two posters whose attitude very much comes over as condescending towards those without children but with pets.

Just goes to show we are all different. I much prefer our whole family to go to most places and yes that includes the dog. No one else needs to understand why I and the rest of my family feel that way about our dog. It’s got nothing to do with you. I can’t undersyand why people have the following - big awd vehicles unless you regularly tow something, big houses when there is no need, people who fly light aircraft or ride motorbikes, go for a drive just for fun, people who have more than 2 kids so adding to rather than maintaining the worlds population. All of these things annoy me, have an impact on my environment and therefore health but I don’t go round telling people they can’t do these things because I don’t see the point in them I can only see the negative. It’s horses for courses.

If you really have a thing about not being near dogs go somewhere else. Vicky is running a business and by the sounds of things a very successful one. She is not obliged to run her business in line with your personal preferences.

Raspberry88. Children running around restaurants, cafes and supermarkets is just as rude and dangerous as a dog running around. An elderly person I volunteered with had their hip broken when a child(about 10 or so) ran into her at full speed in a supermarket. There's no need or excuse for it. And not wanting children to run about in restaurants does not mean that I think they shouldn't be allowed to run anywhere or make any noise.

Why do I have a dog? Why do people have children? One human is far more detrimental to the environment than a dozen or more dogs. At least my dogs were in existence already. They were rescues I didn't breed them. I never have and never would buy from a breeder and every dog I've had has been neutered at the first opportunity.

As for dogs harming humans yes some do, but they don't have the intelligence and reason that humans do and they don't actively go out of their way to torture, rape and abuse their fellow dogs and others. Perhaps they would choose to do so if they could but that's a very hypothetical situation and for all our claim of superiority we are not so far from other animals really. As a species we often allow our most base instincts to take over, ignoring the 'humanity' intelligence' and reason that supposedly puts us above other animals. We may know better but all too often we don't do better.

And I don't care if others don't like dogs, so long as they have no wish to cause them harm. I'd never have a relationship with someone who didn't like animals, and I'd be a little less likely to be drawn to them as a friend but otherwise I really don't care if you do or don't like dogs, unless someone is one of those idiots who goes into hysterics, practically foaming at the mouth about how much they hate dogs and what they'd love to do with them. We've had at least one of those people on the threads.

So I don't understand why anyone gives a shit if others don't care for children, unless they're actively being unpleasant to them or going to a cafe that makes it clear that it's very child friendly and complaining that the children are making noise playing in the play area.

The wording is somewhat aggressive, but I wouldn't get upset about it.

Saying that, all the sign needed to say was "We're dog friendly! Quiet, well-behaved dogs are more than welcome!"

In terms of my opinion of dogs, I'm neutral towards them. I didn't grow up around dogs (we had cats), and although I'm fond of a few dogs of friends, I wouldn't chose to have one, because they are quite a tie, more so than a cat.

I wouldn't necessarily be put off eating at a place with dogs in it. But honestly, it would depend how the rest of the establishment looked. If it looked clean and cozy, I wouldn't object to a few quiet dogs nestled under tables. But if the place was very busy, or dirty, or dogs just wandering and getting in the way and/or barking, I wouldn't frequent it myself.

And long live those brilliant Cat Cafes!

(And animals often have better manners than a lot of humans, IMHO.)

Dogs are just one of the ways that humans are fucking up the planet btw, same as we fuck it up with our cars and other items belonging to us that do environmental damage.

As for people comparing dogs to children, my guess is that these are people who think that children are items belonging to humans. Which is a bit weird and of course inaccurate but then we're talking about dog owners here.

Lots of cafes are now doing this, I’m not entirely sure why but then I’m not a huge dog lover. It would just be a big signal not to go there for me but nothing I’d get het up over.

Some people would replace the word "dogs" with children. And that's just as fine too

Disliking dogs is nothing like disliking children.

Children are humans, the same species as us and something we all once were. It's completely unnatural to actively dislike your own species, not to mention that likely any one person will have interaction with children in some form, most days. I 100% understand why someone wouldn't want to be a parent - it's bloody hard work - but you can choose not to be a parent whilst also liking children.

Comparing this to not liking an animal is just bizarre.

People love their dogs - they really, really love their dogs, they adore their dogs

That's fine, but don't expect everyone else to love them too and don't be all that surprised when people are nervous of them - they are an animal afterall and often unpredictable and uncontrollable

Raspberry88. Children running around restaurants, cafes and supermarkets is just as rude and dangerous as a dog running around

Only because they're a danger to themselves (people carrying hot drinks etc, it sets me on edge and I agree about the rubbing around) but they are not often a danger to other people, they won't bite someone with their sharp teeth who spooks them

It actually does make sense in a way to dislike other humans. They are not related to us and are competition for resources even if modern Western society is set up differently now so that we also gain benefit from cooperating with others(I know that isn't exactly a new concept either) we still are in competition with each other even if it is for a job, school place or the last reduced chicken in Waitrose. We are in our own ways still almost as tribal as our ancestors. There's plenty evidence of that even in 2019.

And again not everyone has to adore your kids, no, not even if they grow up to be adult human beings.

not to mention that likely any one person will have interaction with children in some form, most days

Really? I've thought about this. Last time I had some interaction with a child was over three months ago.

No they won't bite, well having worked in a nursery they might, but they may hit or kick(I had a relative's kid do that recently when we were out for a meal because she wasn't getting her way) and the danger of people dropping hot food or drinks on themselves or someone is exactly why they shouldn't run around, that and the fact that they could knock an elderly person or disabled person over as I have known to happen. Also I have a problem with my arm and if a kid runs into that at speed it can cause immense pain so kids should be seated in cafes or walking with an adult if too young to go to the bathroom alone, imho unless there's a play area.

I like children but going to a cafe full of them would be a nightmare for me.

Different businesses target different markets

I don't interact daily with kids either.