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Original poster

To wonder why Sajid Jarvis was so quick to remove Shamima Begum’s British nationality

503 replies

MrsSchadenfreude · 22/02/2019 15:54

But has done nothing about removing Asma Assad’s? Asma Assad is a dual British-Syrian National, so why not deprive her (and her kids) of British nationality? I can’t quite believe that the government hasn’ Done this. Why on Earth not?

OP posts:
Ofthread · 22/02/2019 16:56

It also makes the UK appear completely incompetent to the international community.

corythatwas · 22/02/2019 16:56

The Tory party are hinting rather strongly that they want to get rid of the Human Rights Charter. I reckon they're testing the waters. Start on somebody that everybody dislikes. Once you have crossed that bridge, they only need to get us to dislike more and more people... The bridge should never be crossed.

HermioneWeasley · 22/02/2019 16:56

Because she’s actively seeking to return and would be a security risk to the British people. Because he believes he’s able to due to dual citizenship (no idea of status of others you’ve mentioned) and because it would be popular.

corythatwas · 22/02/2019 16:57

I'm assuming all those who want to see British violent criminals and paedophiles shipped to poorer countries with less protections in place for women and children will be equally happy to have criminals from other countries shipped over here on the grounds that with a British grandparent they qualify for British citizenship.

And this.

scaryteacher · 22/02/2019 16:58

Cory It is shocking to the rest of the world.

Nope: www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45951138

They have their own problems with returning ones www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/29/german-female-recruit-facing-prison-letting-slave-child-die/

Begum, as far as I have read, has Bangladeshi citizenship until she is 21 and it can then be revoked.

Personally, I think she should be tried in Syria, just as I would be in any country in which I had committed an offence.

Germany don't seem to want Wenzel back either, and I think Iraq imprisoning her is correct as her offences were committed there.

I don't know if there would be the appetite for the trials to take place at the Hague at the ICC - it's a way forward.

SoupDragon · 22/02/2019 16:58

All this support for her

I'm not supporting her. I just think she is the UK's problem, no one else's.

SoupDragon · 22/02/2019 16:59

Begum, as far as I have read, has Bangladeshi citizenship until she is 21

I think she has to have actively sought it rather than just automatically having it. Which she hasn't.

midsomermurderess · 22/02/2019 17:01

I thinking it's partly about timing, a distraction from Brexit chaos, and him eyeing up number 10. Given the makeup of the party's membership, I think he has no chance there.

TalkinPeece · 22/02/2019 17:02

Begum, as far as I have read, has Bangladeshi citizenship until she is 21
She is entitled to apply for it until she is 21
Once she hits 21 Javid cannot leave her stateless

Yet another way the Tories want to shaft the young.

FWIW I think she should come back to the UK and face the full legal music
rather than being made a "martyr" abroad

corythatwas · 22/02/2019 17:04

Personally, I think she should be tried in Syria, just as I would be in any country in which I had committed an offence.

Tried, yes, but then what should they do with her if her actual crimes do not allow for life imprisonment? The normal procedure for a criminal of foreign nationality is that they serve their sentence and are then deported. Britain by revoking her citizenship are now saying to Syria "yah booh sucks, we're making sure you'll never be able to do that".

StealthPolarBear · 22/02/2019 17:05

Thank you cory. I completely agree that as a country we should deal with her as she's our problem to deal with. We can't just try to palm her off any anyone who doesn't refuse quick enough.

Spudlet · 22/02/2019 17:06

She's a convenient dead cat, thrown onto the table at an opportune moment. Look at the amount of coverage all this is getting!

She's also our problem, and should not be foisted off onto another country. She should face trial for any and all crimes that she has committed abroad and once that has happened, she should face trial for any crimes she has committed under British law.

Given that we have no consular staff in Syria for safety reasons, she can make her own way out of the country there - but revoking her citizenship is a step too far, and most likely not legal. As the Home Sec will very well know. But he's making political hay.

Lysistrataknowsherstuff · 22/02/2019 17:07

Scary I very much doubt that Syria is in any state to try all the wives of ISIS fighters. Can you imagine how many thousands of women they'd have to try? I'm sure they've got better things to do, such as try and rebuild a completely devastated country.

We've got foreign criminals in our prisons who are deported at the end of their sentences (some of the Rochdale paedophile ring I believe): does anyone want a situation where we can't deport them when they've finished their sentences as their country of origin won't accept them, having stripped citizenship? It works both ways.

megletthesecond · 22/02/2019 17:09

He's positioning himself into place for next PM.
However it appears to be a knee-jerk move that will probably be overturned.

Ofthread · 22/02/2019 17:14

Tried in Syria Er, she's not in the nation state called Syria. She's in a rebel-held area.

Loopyloumama23 · 22/02/2019 17:15

I was listening to Jeremy Vine yesterday about this very subject. The legal expert stated it isn’t illegal to render someone stateless, supposedly Kuwait did it to a woman. This was a landmark case. However, he felt we weren’t likely to win any appeal. Not sure what the truth of it all.

WatcherintheRye · 22/02/2019 17:23

Questioning Sajid Javid's decision is not supporting Samima Begum, it's supporting the rule of law. Either you want to live in a country governed by the rule of law or you don't. It's that simple. This is an arbitrary decision taken by an ambitious politician who is playing to the gallery, rather than the considered judicial opinion it ought to have been. He may well have taken legal advice........probably from some lawyer mates over dinner.

Papillon45 · 22/02/2019 17:30

On Question Time last night the Tory MP was saying that the Home Secretary will have classified information about her case that is not public knowledge and he will have taken that into account when deciding to strip her of her British citizenship. He also said that the safety of the British public is his first priority

Gronky · 22/02/2019 17:30

Either through blind fanaticism or monumental stupidity she had turned herself into a potentially colossal albatross around Javid's neck if he did nothing. The initial interview she gave was was so hopelessly self condemning that you'd think it had been cooked up by a far right PR nutter and every interview she's given since has only dug the hole deeper.

Tavannach · 22/02/2019 17:34

Begum, as far as I have read, has Bangladeshi citizenship until she is 21

She may be entitled to apply for it. However Bangladesh is saying this would only be the case if her birth had been registered at the Bangladesh High Commission, which apparently it wasn't.
When Javid deprived Begum of her citizenship he acted on

The Secretary of State may by order deprive a person of a citizenship status if the Secretary of State is satisfied that deprivation is conducive to the public good.

Doubtless Bangladesh has similar criteria for those applying for citizenship.

C8H10N4O2 · 22/02/2019 17:39

the Tory MP was saying that the Home Secretary will have classified information about her case that is not public knowledge and he will have taken that into account when deciding to strip her of her British citizenship

Well he can't really say much else can he?

She may be a victim of grooming and trauma, she may be a hard bitten terrorist, she may be something in between.

She was groomed from a young teen, authorities were aware of some of this and failed to take action or even inform her parents (reminders of Rotherham there). She was given to a man twice her age and in three years has had three children whilst living in a war zone. She is now in a refugee camp where she would have no protection if she did speak out other than she has.

But fundamentally she is British and she is our problem to deal with, not Bangladesh's or any other country whose citizenship she doesn't hold. She should come back and be subjected to due process to establish her criminality or otherwise.

TalkinPeece · 22/02/2019 17:39

Tavannach
The Secretary of State may by order deprive a person of a citizenship status if the Secretary of State is satisfied that deprivation is conducive to the public good.
ONLY applies to Naturalised citizens (like me)
Does not apply to those who have never had another passport or the right to another one.
Javid is on VERY shaky ground and will mot likely lose in court
as he should

Ylvamoon · 22/02/2019 17:43

Its simple:
a) Brexit... let the public and media worry about something else.
b) she is turned into an example... this can happen to you if you join ISIS.
c) I think she is very naive and let's herself be used right left and centre!

JazzyBBG · 22/02/2019 17:43

Didn't she want to come home though? That's the point isn't it? No one else has publicly asked to come back. She can't just hop on a BA flight where she is... hence SJ said no you can't and took action.

Nesssie · 22/02/2019 18:00

Just because she may technically be allowed Bangladeshi citizenship why on earth should we make it their problem?
She is British and our problem to deal with.

Once you start stripping citizenship it’s a very dangerous path.
Funny how we like to deport criminals from Britain but don’t like it when we have to receive them Hmm