To wonder why Sajid Jarvis was so quick to remove Shamima Begum’s British nationality

[MrsSchadenfreude]

But has done nothing about removing Asma Assad’s? Asma Assad is a dual British-Syrian National, so why not deprive her (and her kids) of British nationality? I can’t quite believe that the government hasn’ Done this. Why on Earth not?

Yeah i got that

So I have automatic citizenship because I was born in the U.K. before 1983 even though my parents weren’t citizens and didn’t have iLR at the time.After 1986 you needed to have a parent with settled status or ILR. Or who was a citizen. After 2006 you could only get citizenship via your mother or via your father if he was married to your mother. I think thst’s how it goes.

Dunno Bertrand, countries have different citizenship laws and have a habit of changing them.

But we do now know that you’re at least 35.

kissing, rufus, that is the case referred to and that is the one that means she definitely is a Bangladeshi citizen and not a UK citizen. It’s detailed in the spectator article I linked to above.

Kissing is right. In that case the UK tried to strip two men aged over 21 of UK citizenship as they claimed they had Bangladeshi citizenship. Yes, the UK lost that case and those two men retain UK citizenship. But in the process of that case and in the legal exchanges between the countries following the case, it was established that the children of Bangladeshi citizens retain their citizenship up to the age of 21 regardless of where they are born and where they live. And it was established that those children could be stripped of citizenship.

It’s a bit unusual, but because those cases have just happened, that’s established as the precise law.

There’s nowhere she can really go with it. It’s open and shut. She can only really argue that her son is a UK citizen and he has a right to her presence in the UK to raise him. But then of course, the issue with that is would she even be allowed to raise him.

It really does look very unlikely she is going to have a leg to stand on re coming here.

madcat, the spectator link I posted earlier has all the details. Google ‘spectator Shamima Begum citizenship’ and it comes up.

Haven't her grandparents offered to look after the baby, is that possible if he is not the babies grandfather. Could the baby be looked after by her Dutch husband family

Just looked at the Bangladesh Nationality Act, and if I’m reading it right I think SB would need to have been registered as a foreign birth? Might be wrong though. It’s Section 5.

bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/print_sections_all.php?id=242

So I have automatic citizenship because I was born in the U.K. before 1983 even though my parents weren’t citizens and didn’t have iLR at the time.

Yes, in the past you just had to be born here to be a UK citizen. The changed the rules for people born after that.

Yes, I think that technically you have to be registered at birth. I think that very rarely happens and I bet that they normally let people be citizens if the other conditions are met regardless. No doubt that intend to make an exception in SB's case though (and who can blame them!)

SB father has said he agrees with the decision to remove her citizenship, London Imans agree. I’ve been told I’m a nasty racist on this issue, are SB father and the Bethnal Green Iman racist?

As for the little boy, SB has stated he’s not going anywhere without her. It’s a mess all round.

Oh and Jihadi Jack wants to come home and says he never actually joined Isil. Guess he was groomed and he is completely innocent and should be treated with compassion? Hopefully he has dual citizenship and is treated the same way.

Just looked at the Bangladesh Nationality Act, and if I’m reading it right I think SB would need to have been registered as a foreign birth? Might be wrong though. It’s Section 5.

Bangladesh is a common law jurisdiction. The interpretation of its enactments are subject to precedent. If Bejam is right about the case she refers to - and who can argue with a poster named sentimentally after a frozen food chain? - that Act must be read in the context of that case.

I think this argument about SB’s Bangladeshi citizenship has run its course. She very obviously is a Bangladeshi citizen. Sajid Javid could do what he’s done legally.

Whether it’s right for other reasons is another thing. On that I disagree with Bejam.

Guess he was groomed no idea and he is completely innocent i suppose that depends what he is being accused of and should be treated with compassion? Yes. Because compassion and sympathy are completely different things

Wow! Boldtastic! What did you mean Bertrand?

continuity, you’ve read that incorrectly. What it says is

5. Subject to the provisions of section 3 a person born after the commencement of this Act, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his 4[ father or mother] is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth:

Shamima’s parents are both citizens of Bangladesh by birth. So Shamima is automatically a citizen of Bangladesh by descent. Citizenship by descent is given to the children of first generation migrants who were not born in Bangladesh but whose parents were. I’m that case it is automatic.

Provided that if the 5[ father or mother] of such person is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless-

(a) that person's birth having occurred in a country outside Bangladesh the birth is registered at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country, or where there is no Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country at the prescribed Consulate or Mission or at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in the country nearest to that country;

These two sections (which I think you misunderstood) refer to the children of second generation migrants. So children whose grandparents were born in Bangladesh, but whose parents were not. So their grandparents are ‘citizens by birth’ of Bangladesh (as Shamima’s parents are) but their parents are citizens of a country other than Bangladesh (citizens by descent of Bangladesh). In the case of children of those with citizenship by descent, citizenships is not automatic and the birth would need to be registered with the Bangladeshi governments representatives in the country of their birth in order for them to receive it. This will apply to Shamima’s son.

Shamima’s however was automatic, no registration required.

It doesn’t matter how many knots people try and pull themselves into to make her a British citizen, or how many half understood links they want to post. She is a Bangladeshi citizen now, not a British one. And it’s all perfectly legal.

Basically Shamima thought she was being clever and her lawyer thought he smelt big bucks and that we would be forced to take her back regardless of how obvious she made her support for ISIS because neither of them had done their research. She’s fucked. No wonder she’s started furiously back pedalling and saying she’s willing to change now.

Thank you Bejam. So the statute confers citizenship on SB: no need to rely on case law.

Bertrand he’s called people “dirty non muslims” including his parents. Not a crime but it shows he’s a bigot. He he go to Syria on holiday?

Yes, it's automatic in my view too which means we got in first ands tripped her of the British nationality (thankfully) so Bangladesh cannot now do so under international law as that would probably make her stateless unless her marriage to the Dutchman which I assume was religious not civil counts to give her some rights in Holland.

What I suspect will happen is we the tax payer will have to pay a small fortune out on legal costs for a claim she might make which she will probably lose but probably a lot less money than keeping her and defenduing us against her and her child over the years.

The Western countries will have to do something because the Kurdish forces, who are holding Jack Letts & many other foreign ISIS fighters in prison along with ISIS wives like SB in the refugee camps, say they can't keep these people for much longer without support.

I do not sympathise with Shamima Begum, but at the same time I do think that removing her citizenship is morally questionable.
I think she should be tried for any crimes she has committed.

Yes, Madcat, but that’s part of the practical objection that I agree with. If the government thinks otherwise it’s entitled to.

Harsh though it sounds,. Syria does have the death penalty for bearing arms against Syria so at least for those women and men who did the actual fighting they might find they are tried out there and get the death penalty so will not be going anywhere other than the after life if there is one.

Bejam that’s why I said I might be wrong I’ll blame it on lack of sleep due to loud teenage sleepover last night. Makes it similar to Ireland then.

The thing is Majestic is that the UK has a poor track record of dealing with returning terrorist sympathisers. We have people like SB would be solicitor who blames the police for non action but actively advises non cooperation with the police. The same solicitor who thought one of Lee Rigbys murderer was the victim and the UK in general was at fault.

And I’m not trying to tie myself in knots about anything - always think it’s best to look at the primary references rather than rely on second hand stuff.