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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think db has been scammed by his ex

361 replies

lurchersrool · 21/02/2019 21:31

Db is going through a divorce. There are two children involved who he sees regularly and the divorce was triggered by his infidelity - though he's single now and insists the marriage was in trouble for years before he cheated which was certainly how it looked from the outside tbf.

Anyway, the point is there was fault on both sides but I feel he has been royally shafted by the way the finances have been dealt with. He and I were both given £80k by df in order to buy property. That was about 12 years ago, just before the crash. Db and exsil had just got together but they bought the property together, despite df raising some concerns about it. I don't know all the ins and outs but they had a fair bit of work done on the property which involved re-mortgaging and a couple of years ago moved to a bigger house.

Apparently the situation now is that the amount of equity is so little that there is no point in selling and they have no other assets so db can't get his £80k, or even half of it back. Ex sil has said the most the bank can lend her is £20k, and even that she's saying will partly need to cover her legal costs, so he's going to end up with a pittance. I think it's a joke. She has a well-paid job while db has no real career as such. He has back problems from an injury he got years ago and has always struggled to hold down permanent jobs. He looked after one of the dc for a year as a baby so ex sil could go back to work, but now he's being left with nothing, well nothing aside from a share of her pension but he obviously won't get that for years so nothing really tangible.

It just seems so wrong. He refused to get a solicitor although I had offered to help pay, and I know df is beside himself worrying about db's future. He thought the £80k would at least see him in secure housing but now it seems to have gone and db is back to shitty bedsits. To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing. AIBU to think she shouldn't be putting in this claim and db has been treated really badly here?

OP posts:
shpoot · 22/02/2019 10:31

Yeah, true. But her earning potential is hers. It's due to making good decisions and hard work.

He did the opposite. So he has to live with it or get a job

missbattenburg · 22/02/2019 10:39

Another one thinking your DB has not been scammed at all.

Through his & her own choices, they have managed to turn £80k equity into £40k equity. All that over a period of time where property prices have been going up and up and up. He's not been tricked. He's been an idiot with his money. The wife is not the perpetrator. He has chosen to spend £80k of his money on something that has returned a value of £40k. Actually, it's worse because at least one of them (her?) has been paying the mortgage all that time too.

So they've managed to turn £80k + 12 years of mortgage payments into £40k. Bloody fools.

The choice is simple: take his share of the £40k now (£20k) or take it later when the kids are grown. TBH I cannot see the growth being so much between now and then - and he cannot expect to pay nothing between now and then towards the house, but for his % share to magically go up.

If, right now, the owners of the house are (for eg):
5% him (approx £20k's worth)
5% her (approx 20k's worth)
90% the bank (the mortgage)

Then he's not going to magically get 50% of the house value if sold in a few years time unless he's paid into the house in between.

pissedonatrain · 22/02/2019 10:55

I have no idea why you are so involved in your DBs affairs? Is he so simple that he can't figure things out for himself?

As for his back injury. It's funny how these injuries never prevent these lodgers from shagging about.

How is it that his credit is terrible but hers isn't? Has he a drink or gambling issue?

If you really want to help your feckless DB, stop treating him like a small child and tell him to get off his arse and get trained in something. Office work just something to bring in money.

In no way has he been scammed. His ex has done the lion's share of everything and pays for the mortgage as well as child care.

Tell DB to grow up and start adulting.

JonestheRemail · 22/02/2019 11:03

I'm guessing that the £20k payout also releases DB from the joint liability under the mortgage ie wife takes the house but also assumes 100% of the liability to pay the mortgage.

So he is actually receiving more than £20k if you factor in the value of 50% of the mortgage debt which he is currently liable to pay (technically he is jointly liable for all of it). Whilst debt relief is not hard cash in his hand, it does not look so bad a deal on that basis. He walks away debt free with £20k cash in hand and his children continue to be securely housed.

ThatssomebadhatHarry · 22/02/2019 11:07

You are an enabler. You are justifying his very poor behaviour. He is lazy and workshy clearly. If he sacrificed his own career to look after his kids but he didn’t, he still sees her as the primary carer to his children.
There is nothing that anyone can point out to you as you are only want to hear that you are right.
You db back problems are likely the excuse he uses to be lazy.
I feel sorry for his poor ex and bed she is glad she is rid of the lazy layabout who sucked her dry for years.

Time to wake up OP.

MrsCollinssettled · 22/02/2019 11:10

Much as it's hard for your df to see what db did with his money, spare a thought for his ex-wife who will no doubt see your db piss away the 20k knowing what she could have done for your dns with it

mummmy2017 · 22/02/2019 11:17

Reread the OP..
Most bank will give SIL is 20k. And she says some of this is needed to pay her divorce bill, as DB has not even got a solicitor...
Also no equity in house..
I so hope the judge does not raid her pension...

LostInShoebiz · 22/02/2019 11:19

I so hope the judge does not raid her pension...

That’s not how a consent order works. If you’ve reached an agreement then a judge won’t override it with their own adjustments and tinkerings.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 22/02/2019 11:20

The children are living in the house. You say its not worth selling.. Your DF is annoyed because he wanted the 80k to benefit DB and so that he would have somewhere to live. He should reflect that it is currently benefiting his Grandchildren. If they didn't live there, DB would have to contribute in some way to where they lived. So he is still benefitting from the money in that way and presumably the house could be sold later on.
If they've already been through mediation there's probably been an attempt to make it fair, but bearing the interests of the children in mind. I don't think DB and DF can harp on about money that was knowingly spent years ago by all parties to build a future and then the future didn't work out, but at least the children still have a home. It's unfortunate but he got what he needed out of that cash at the time and had many years enjoyment of the property. Now his children have a secure home.

Loseitandkeepitlost · 22/02/2019 11:31

Your brother needs legal advice. If he is too unwise to get it then he can’t complain about the result.

It does sound as though he has made quite a few unwise choices!

ColdFingered · 22/02/2019 11:33

I think the OP should explain to the DF where the money has gone, so DF doesn't think his DS is "being scammed". It would be great if DF had a good relationship with his DIL and his grandchildren, rather than having it poisoned by believing DS's view of the world.

MrsCollinssettled · 22/02/2019 11:36

OP you probably need to give more thought to your db's long term prospects. I'm guessing he's in his 30s. Given that he's not good with money, has a poor employment record and failed marriage behind him it's not looking good. As he gets older his dating pool is getting wiser and he has less and less to offer much younger women.

He may manage to bounce between gfs for a while but when he can't find someone to provide for him what is he going to do then? Move in with df and drain his resources? Move in with you?

He needs a wake up call and fast.

Swizzlefizzlefoo · 22/02/2019 11:39

I'm not sure that you've meant to op, but the description you give of your dB is of a person who has addiction problems, possibly of the gambling kind.

Thank god your dns have a secure roof over their head.

crispysausagerolls · 22/02/2019 11:53

This is hilarious

CanILeavenowplease · 22/02/2019 11:57

This is hilarious

In what way? All I see is yet another woman happy to support a man who doesn’t support his children.

Pinkprincess1978 · 22/02/2019 12:09

Ignoring his cheating or the state of the marriage.

The house is worth £X and if they have a mortgage for £Y. He is only entitled at most to half the difference between £X-£Y. Regardless of him previously putting in an £80,000 deposit that money has now gone. It sounds like they have both made terrible decisions financially. If you are saying there is no equity in the house I think if he is getting nearly £20 that's not too Bad.

No matter what he earns and certainly no matter what she earns of course the NRP must pay something towards his children. It is never right for a parent to not support their children in anyway just because their other parent makes more money.

PalmTree101 · 22/02/2019 12:12

So they've managed to turn £80k + 12 years of mortgage payments into £40k. Bloody fools

Fuck off with that attitude. How twattish can you be? Many, many people bought property before the prices crashed in 2008. If it was so easy to have spotted it was the peak, the GFC wouldn't have happened.

crosstalk · 22/02/2019 12:14

OP do move this to legal.

I'm sure there are some people commenting on here who know their stuff but clearly legal attracts legal people and more comment.

On the face of it, your DB's £80K helped finance the matrimonial home. For some reason (bad choices made by both parties) the current house isn't worth what was spent on it and it's remortgaged to the hilt. Seriously, he needs to be marched down to a solicitor or CAB. He would be unwise to accept a final pay-off IMHO since the house could substantially increase in value over the next 13 years. However he is presumably not now contributing to the expenses of running it and repayments?

FizzyGreenWater · 22/02/2019 12:16

Sorry OP, I can see how it must be hard to feel that your sibling (and by extension your side of the family) is the one coming off 'worst' but honestly, open your eyes! You are literally disappearing up your own backside here- busting a gut to frame every aspect of this as 'poor bumbling easy-going bro versus ball-breaker controlling career wife' when tbh every single one of your posts is practically red flag bingo to anyone who spends even a short time on these boards hearing about marriage break ups. Even without the cheating, I would bet my hat that your brother has been the one to fuck up this marriage and I would LOVE to hear his ex's side of the story.

But let's start from the beginning. Let's say your bro had indeed ring fenced his 80k. Well to start with, he'd be on a sticky wicket with it anyway, even if he'd originally bought the house himself on his own!... you seem to think that now they're splitting, there should be some sort of automatic 'rewind' to the point where they were both single, autonomous agents and the assets are split accordingly. Um, that's not what they are. They are a married unit with children. Even if his name alone was on the house, the court would look at the assets and the first priority would be housing HIS children, HIS dependants (and yes YOUR father's grandkids) - not giving some mythical single man his 80k back - that man doesn't exist any more, and obviously neither does the 80k in any transferable format. And the house would still be an asset of the marriage regardless! And, and - they bloody MOVED to a bigger house! Where the fuck do you think your brother got approval for that from? That's right, his awful ball-breaker of a WIFE who worked hard enough and earned enough for the mortgage to be approved!

In a situation where there is little equity, selling and splitting is madness - so you lose the children's security in order to give both 'camps' - one of which needs to provide a permananet stable base for the children - the square root of fuck all, so NOBODY gets housed. What is happening gives everyone the best chance of security. Note that it's his ex here who is taking on the lion's share of future graft. She's going to be the one earning more, using it to support their kids plus paying off the mortgage while he essentially goes back to having zero actual responsibility. How could they even do it the other way around?! - presumably he would not be able to maintain the mortgage on his own?

Most of all though I would really, really advise you to keep well out of this and STOP taking your brother's word - direct or implied - for what's been happening. Your posts are cliche central and I am totally unsurprised that you've had so many replies all basically raising their eyebrows. Your brother sounds bloody awful and I'd bet my bum that there's a pattern of lazy, twatty behaviour here and you just don't know the half of it. Wait and see what happens longer term, because I will make a prediction here - in a couple of years time it will be crystal clear who is taking responsibility, who puts the children first and it's not going to be the 'great dad' who is so committed to his children's security that he fucks around on the side. And if you publicly 'side' with your brother to the extent you're doing here, the end result could be that your family become distanced from the children longer term.

Like I said, I'd love to hear what his ex's side of all this would be.

I asked about him getting custody of the kids but he says that he wouldn't do that to his ex and that he sees her as the main parent anyway. - because she IS the main parent maybe, in addition to being the main wage earner, and he knows full well that there's no way he'd have a case for residency compared to the parent who actually does all the shit?

I think she's always been quite controlling tbh and ex is more laidback. Yep, that's absolutely the line trotted out by every shitty dick-led twat whose wife has the temerity to be the one focused on earning, caring and taking responsibility for the kids. You think he's more of a 'natural dad'? - err no, by definition, choosing to have an affair when you have young kids, instead of having the guts to end a marriage cordially, is the most shitty dad thing you could do. It's blatantly obvious from every single point you make that your brother thinks mainly about himself - even now, your concern is that you can 'see him sliding right down after this' - really? Rather than working to set himself up so he can be a good non-resident parent, he's going to need looking after as it's all going to be toooo much for him?

He stayed home with their youngest when she was born and for the second she insisted on taking a year off. - that's actually one of the most telling points you make. His wife was HAPPY to let her DH be the stay-at-home and she continue at work - that's a big thing with your first - I guess she just knew there's no way he would have been able to step up and provide, or maybe yes she wished to work, either shows that she assessed what the priorities were and got on with it. Clearly, it didn't go well and after EXPERIENCING it, she refused to go with that plan for the second. I'm guessing that the 'natural dad' wasn't maybe such a great option after all.

Honestly I think your brother has come out of this rather well. If they weren't married, sounds like right now he'd be looking at a house repossession, no £20k and no share in his rather more adult ex's pension.

PalmTree101 · 22/02/2019 12:21

Who wants to bet that the brother self-medicates for his 'back pain' with cabanas?

PrivacyPolicyYeahRight · 22/02/2019 12:21

There is 20 grand. He stuck his dick in someone else and let his wife and young kids down. He blew their world apart. They deserve his share.

It doesn’t work like this in the real world. It would be lovely if it did but it doesn’t. My friend divorced her ex because he committed a horrendous crime and went to prison. Guess what, the court were not interested in that. They had to go 50/50 on assets. That was that. It was the most unfair thing in the world but that is how it works!!!

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 22/02/2019 12:25

OP, you are tripping over yourself to find fault with your exSIL.

He hasnt been scammed, he's been an idiot. Get over it.

AngelsSins · 22/02/2019 12:34

So why doesn’t he live in the house with the kids, take over the mortgage, look after the kids, and she can pay maintenance and see the kids every other weekend or whenever it suits her? Or would that be unfair on your brother too? She’s done nothing wrong here, stop making excuses for your brothers bad choices.

flamingofridays · 22/02/2019 12:42

I don't think you understand what buying out means... you don't pay the person who has left half the value of the house, you just give them half the equity surely?

mummmy2017 · 22/02/2019 12:44

I yet again reread the OP.
They remortgaged the house with the 80k deposit and did work on it.
I do wonder if they got nothing from it, as prices dropped....
Which means after debts paid the 20k is probably the deposit on the 2nd house, since the DB has not had a proper job, this means his wife got the mortgage on her wages only, hence why him leaving has not effected her.
Just wonder over 12 years if the pension is worth that much...
Also I bet they have debts, I think your brother is not going to get thousands...