To think db has been scammed by his ex

[lurchersrool]

Db is going through a divorce. There are two children involved who he sees regularly and the divorce was triggered by his infidelity - though he's single now and insists the marriage was in trouble for years before he cheated which was certainly how it looked from the outside tbf.

Anyway, the point is there was fault on both sides but I feel he has been royally shafted by the way the finances have been dealt with. He and I were both given £80k by df in order to buy property. That was about 12 years ago, just before the crash. Db and exsil had just got together but they bought the property together, despite df raising some concerns about it. I don't know all the ins and outs but they had a fair bit of work done on the property which involved re-mortgaging and a couple of years ago moved to a bigger house.

Apparently the situation now is that the amount of equity is so little that there is no point in selling and they have no other assets so db can't get his £80k, or even half of it back. Ex sil has said the most the bank can lend her is £20k, and even that she's saying will partly need to cover her legal costs, so he's going to end up with a pittance. I think it's a joke. She has a well-paid job while db has no real career as such. He has back problems from an injury he got years ago and has always struggled to hold down permanent jobs. He looked after one of the dc for a year as a baby so ex sil could go back to work, but now he's being left with nothing, well nothing aside from a share of her pension but he obviously won't get that for years so nothing really tangible.

It just seems so wrong. He refused to get a solicitor although I had offered to help pay, and I know df is beside himself worrying about db's future. He thought the £80k would at least see him in secure housing but now it seems to have gone and db is back to shitty bedsits. To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing. AIBU to think she shouldn't be putting in this claim and db has been treated really badly here?

[poglets]

She doesn't have to do overnight stays and/or leave her home to accommodate a cheating arsehole. How much more are you going to subject her to so that your brother can fuck who he pleases and have no prospects. He also made a bad investment, why do you think he gets to walk away from it?

If the marriage was dead then he should have left, not cheated. He is living with his choices.

Likewise, he pays for his kids. Because that is what decent people take pleasure in doing.

You would be doing him a service to make him realize this instead of pandering to him.

[Ellisandra]

HER pension: “he sometimes says he doesn’t want it”.

You know he doesn’t actually have to take it, right?

My XH had a commercial property and I voluntarily suggested we leave it out of our considerations - against the advice of my solicitor and with a warning from her that the judge might decide to call me in instead of approving the CO in absentia.

I can’t believe you’re actually posting that horse shit! Of course he wants it. And woe is me posturing crap about being dead So you’ve said he’s in his 40s I think, as you commented he was older than in his 30s. So he could currently access part of HER pension at 57. He’s a dick. Tell him to not to ask the court for a PSO then.

[birdsandroses]

@lurchersrool, as someone confirmed to me on here, have you and he realised that if he is entitled to some of her pension it will only be the payments for the 12 years they were married?

[Belenus]

I'm assuming the people on here are all perfect and with no health issues.

I'm far from perfect and I have MH issues that make work difficult. But I work because the alternative is worse. And in the right job I like working, I just need allowances for the MH. You wouldn't put me in really stressful jobs but I am quite capable of working.

[Schuyler]

It is morally incomprehensible to approve of a parent refusing to pay anything towards the upkeep of their children purely because the resident parent earns a decent salary. You may think the pittance won’t go a long way in terms of showing the children he cares and he is committed in every way but you are so wrong. If he refuses to pay, I suspect the ex will tell the children when they’re older and you know what, your brother would deserve nothing less. I hope he steps ups and pays.

I have complex health problems but I focus on the work I can do and providing for my family, as opposed to shagging around. Your brother needs to start looking for some kind of work, any kind of work and show his commitment to being a parent. He needs to earn money or claim benefits if he’s too sick to work, pay the appropriate amount of maintenance, ensure regular contact with his children and grow up.

[Grumpelstilskin]

Reading your posts OP, it is clear both you and your brother share the same murky moral gene pool.

[TheSerenDipitY]

your point about the child maintenance is moot... whether you think "she" needs it or not
he helped create those children therefore he has to pay, even if it is 1 measly little pound a week he has to pay and for you to think he shouldn't have to is frankly quite embarrassing to all women.
Quit excusing his shit behavior and start telling him to grow the fuck up and take responsibility for his actions
and for fucks sakes quit saying nasty shit about your sister in law, shes not rubbing his face in anything, and ill bet she has a shit ton of things she could but hasnt, she has put up with his lazy ass, she has supported him, the children and the house mostly solo for 12 years! perhaps start supporting her and let her know she can count on you and your father to help out when needed... she is not the bad guy in this, not by a long shot

[expat101]

lurchersrool, are you sure you and Dad are not being scammed with the ''poor me'' story in the hope of you or Dad giving Bro some $$'s? Hear me out, your Dad is financial enough to have given each of you 80,000 pounds 12 years ago. So he must be financially secure in his own way to be able to have provided well for you both then. Are you sure Bro isn't trying to tap into some of that remaining wealth by getting you both on side with how ''horrible'' his Ex is being? Secondly, bad backs. Yes my hubby suffers terribly as does my Cousins' hubby, both in the construction industry. There have been times Hubby has been unable to turn around to wipe his bottom and has had to crawl to the shower to clean up. There was another time he collapsed with a jackhammer on top of him and I had to pull that off of him and help him crawl on his knees away from where he was working. He has access to extremely strong drugs that he has to take before his back relaxes enough for the pain to subside, the Docs want him to have an operation but neither of us know of anyone who has had a successful back operation that didn't leave them worse off.
The twinge is always there and the last thing he even wants to think about is sex. But he goes back to work eventually.

Your post reads to me as if your Bro hasn't really made any sort of effort over the years, but found time to please himself with another bedmate. I cannot help but think he is making excuses and looking for another handout and you/Dad are the likely source.

[SaturdayNext]

I do think she'll come out better in the long run and that may partly be due to his lifestyle, but she doesn't need to rub it in.

She'll come out better in the long run because she works and earns a living, and because she is the one who's stepped up to the plate and given her children a home. It really is extraordinary that your brother isn't motivated enough to get a job so that he can give his children somewhere to stay overnight.

[AJPTaylor]

Would also add that unless he gets a solicitor, her solicitor won't be offering up a PSO.

[GunpowderGelatine]

OP your SIL could win £40million on the lottery tomorrow and your brother would still have to pay her because maintenance isn't about what the RP "could do with" it's about both parents taking responsibility

[LadyGAgain]

If she supported him then he might be entitled to some support however this will be off set against maintenance. His children deserve a home and roof over their heads.
He is a shit for cheating but the courts don't apportion blame do not relevant when it comes to finances.

[Micah]

OP your SIL could win £40million on the lottery tomorrow and your brother would still have to pay her because maintenance isn't about what the RP "could do with" it's about both parents taking responsibility

Would he? What about all the “equality of lifestyle” posts on here where the much richer parent is supposed to compensate the lower earning so the children have similar lifestyles in both homes?

If it were him that won the lottery, you’d expect him to give her a big chunk, no? For the kids? Would you expect her to keep on living in her 3 bed terrace while he lived with his millions in a mansion?

Saw a post on here the other day where a very high earning bloke had a court order to pay his ex so she could provide a similar lifestyle to him. Why no vice versa?

[Absofuckinglutely]

The cheating is irrelevant, legally speaking anyway, so let's leave that one alone.

They bought the property together. If he was concerned about the £80k, they should have had an agreement drawn up at that stage to protect his asset. That didn't happen.

The property became a marital asset. They remortgaged and have no equity left. Therefore the £80k is gone and the property has NO value as the bank owns the entirety of it and his ex wife will be left with that debt to pay off. I think you are confusing owning a property with no debt, to owning a property with 100% mortgage. She basically has major debt here, it is no longer an asset.

She worked more and earned more. I'm imagining that she now has the children living with her. She now has to share her pension with your brother (which I actually think she has been badly advised on, as if he is unable to pay maintenance, that should have been used as leverage against his entitlement to her pension).

I'm amazed you cannot see that your brother is not getting a bad deal. In many ways your ex sis in law is getting a far worse deal here. You also seem unconcerned about his obligation to support his children.
He sound like a feckless twat, frankly.

[LuaDipa]

Micah because in the situation you mention, the dw had given up her career and compromised her future earning potential by staying home to raise the kids. It would be unfair to disregard her contribution to the marriage.

In the op’s situation, her db took one year when the first dc (now age 7) was born. He hadn’t really worked since then, but he hasn’t stepped up to take care of the home and dc either. If he had been the one raising the dc so his wife could go to work I and most other posters would agree with you that he should have his lifestyle supported in recognition of what he had contributed. But I’m not actually sure this man has contributed anything at all.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

if she wanted overnights I'm sure he would stay over,

Yes - that would work.

[Kismetjayn]

OP, I do understand how hard it is to retrain and get a new career. I'm doing it. While raising a child. Because when you have one, that's just what you have to do.

Working in a soul destroying from-home call centre job around DD to finance uni to one day get a career, in the process of separating from 'D'P who huffs and sighs that I'm taking advantage of him by asking for minimum maintenance, though I've been primary caregiver to DD since she was born so that he could grow his career.

According to men, paying any child support is being walked over, because they don't get to have custody...not that they want it because it's hard work. If you have custody and they pay maintenance, that's you taking everything from them because you're a selfish heartless bitch.

[0rangeB0ttle]

If you DBs name is still on the mortgage and deeds of the house and still married, he still owns half. His children need somewhere to live. So I guess he needs to sort out a divorce, a job and a financial settlement.

[NWQM]

I totally get that you are worried for your brother. Are you sure though that you know the whole story? When we got together I had equity in the property and my husband had equity from the property he sold. When taking out the new joint mortgage we both had to sign to say we understood we were giving this away. That we understood that we would only have x equity in the future depending on markets. Did he really not understand what he was doing? He made choices - to most of us they now seem bad ones. It sounds as if she is buying him out for half the equity. That this is now only £20k is a shame for both do them. Not sure why he can’t use that to get somewhere decent to see his kids though? And why shouldn’t he have to pay something towards their upkeep - what do you perceive the threshold should be that his ex asks for that?

[swingofthings]

the little bit of money db could pay won't. make. any. difference. That's my point that people seem unable to understand
Oh it will! It might mean his kids, being able to go on a school trip, or getting kits for sports, or a musical instrument.

It might mean getting a mattress, better quality shoes, a more exciting birthday party etc...

Am totally puzzled why you think it won't make any difference! Because she can afford it all? Well even in that case, she can put it all in a saving account for them to use towards Uni or even the deposit towards a house later. It won't be wasted money and it is money he owes them as their dad. If he struggles, then he will have to figure out a way to earn more.

[goldengummybear]

the little bit of money db could pay won't. make. any. difference. If it's so little then it won't be life changing for him either. Even if it's the minimum of £7pw at least he can look his children in the eyes.

[goldengummybear]

If they made the financially imprudent decision to overextend the mortgage, how do you know that they don't have debts? As SIL is the main earner, those debts will almost certainly be in her name. They both made the decision to pay for house improvements that didn't increase the house value by at least an equal amount. Why is your anger reserved for SIL? He's not been conned. House price rises aren't guaranteed never mind building work.

[GunpowderGelatine]

If it were him that won the lottery, you’d expect him to give her a big chunk, no? For the kids? Would you expect her to keep on living in her 3 bed terrace while he lived with his millions in a mansion?

Well yes I would expect him to, but maintenance is for maintaining children, and if the RP is looking after the child 7 nights a week what would she be giving the NRP money for exactly if not for him to spend on himself?

I think people really have a hard time remembering maintenance is for children not for exes, and if we changed the language around this maybe people would be less willing to sell children down the river

[Micah]

Well yes I would expect him to, but maintenance is for maintaining children, and if the RP is looking after the child 7 nights a week what would she be giving the NRP money for exactly if not for him to spend on himself?

So he can afford to buy a house with enough space so he can have overnights, buy decent food, heat, light, amentities they have at both homes?

Or is it a case of dad should pay, and if he can’t afford to see the kids as well, tough?

If he won the lottery the kids could live with him, and he wouldn’t need to pay her anything. Or should he, so she can still have a relationship with her kids?

Both parents have equal rights to see their children. It’s about facilitating that relationship.

[Micah]

Both parents have equal rights to see their children. It’s about facilitating that relationship

Sorry, let me re word that.

Children have equal rights to see both parents.