Schools method of discipline AIBU

[Ninjafox]

Not sure if I'm being precious but I'm sure I'll be told either way now. Found out today that DC's school discipline naughty children by sending them to another class to sit on a chair.

My thoughts are this is worse than a telling off as they are actively showing the other children 'look at this naughty child' and humiliating them. This happens as young as reception. At least if they are sent to the head they get a telling off and that's more or less the end of it. It feels a bit like the village stocks or a public flogging. AIBU to think this is a bit off? For reference the school is in a really good catchment and the naughty kids of whom I know a few seem quite mildly naughty tbh.

Against the very obvious grain, I don’t believe this is a suitable form of discipline for a Reception age child. Time out style ‘punishments’ rarely work. Instead, they increase aggression, anger, misunderstanding, worry and anxiety. Obviously there may be times when a child cannot be around others for safety purposes but time out to sit on a chair in another room is not a positive discipline method for changing behaviour.

Aside from that, a good chunk of the EYFS curriculum is about facilitating the development of personal and social interactions. I’d be interested to know exactly what actions lead to a child being removed from the classroom.

YABP (you are being precious)

I work in a nursery and on occasions we have had to you a similar scheme with children as young as 2. When we have a child that has been given numerous warnings and will not listen or do.as they have been asked. Removing them from the situation for a couple of minutes can be the best way to get them.focused again.

theconversation.com/how-teachers-are-taught-to-discipline-a-classroom-might-not-be-the-best-way-34860

This

This is standard in all the schools I've taught in as part of the behaviour management procedure. Two strikes, then away to another class.

I can control my class, thanks. I'm just not having someone's PFB entitled child disturbing the learning of those who actually want to learn.

I bet it's parents like you who complain about the behaviour of children "these days", then complain about someone actually disciplining them. Why do you think children behave badly now? It's certainly not down to the teachers.

Well done guess if you don’t like it you could always teach your kid to behave and respect teachers before they get to school,then it wouldn’t be an issue would it?

I say this as a parent of a y2 pupil, in a class full of 6-7 year olds who manage to show respect to their teacher. Apart from the odd telling no issues. Yet in the reception class I occasionally help in there’s several disruptive kids screwing up the experience for the vast majority. TA constantly having to sort out minor bullying, hair pulling etc. 4-5 year olds should have been taught not to do these things by parents at that age

Child is better behaved at school than at home? Your approach isn’t working.
Your child is being a PITA in the classroom. Time for some consequences.
You might like to try that at home.

That article is Australian. It has no relevance to a UK classroom today. For example, this is bullshit.

"Aggressive and anti-social behaviours occur infrequently"

Actually, that's not the case. In my personal experience, this type of behaviour is very frequent.

How qualified in behavioural management in the classroom are you, OP?

A 2015 article from Australia that basically says prevention is the best way to behaviour manage.

Prevention isn't always possible. If pupils are consistently disrupting, there HAS to be a consequence. You sound like you'd be the first to complain if your child's learning was being disrupted by others.

If you don't like the system, move school.

Longtime lurker. First time poster.
Do you think, OP, that the teacher is not spending her time in preventing poor behaviour? You seem to take a very dim view of teachers' expertise. I just thought I'd list a tiny number of the techniques that she is likely to be doing:
Careful seating management
Varied tone of voice
Listening for any changes in tone or level of noise
Constant room scanning
Intricately planned activities taking into account children's concentration levels, knowledge, resilience and interests
Taught routines, particularly in reception
Pictures and other visual support for independence
Take up time
Tactical ignoring
Timers to help with concentration
Fiddle toys
Visual timetable
Taught scripts for children to use in disputes
Specific praise
Catching being good
Spot the role model
Calming activities
Energising activities
Circle time
These (and many more) are the basics in any primary classroom. For children with particular difficulties or those that need some support or attention there will be many more.
If you have a solution to poor behaviour that we don't know about I'd be delighted to hear it, but yes, yabu.

Im not against this.
However i do frequently get annoyed with dc school behaviour management. Because unlike suggested here they seem to go straight to a serious punishment like op says the individual teachers seem to have no control except send out of class or to HT. Often for pretty minor offences. Which i think is counterproductive and leading to a well im not worried about xyz punishment as ive dont it already and it's not too bad. Well you dont want that from a 4/5/6yo etc.
I think the attitudes on this thread are quite disgusting. Im sorry your dc classes are disrupted. However i imagine many of the kids disrupting them have SEN /adopted/ etc. And it's not exactly the kids' fault that there are rubbish nhs services and inclusion and no special school places.
Regarding the 'the parents havent said no' well i dont know as im sure this may be true of some parents. However I guarantee that is not always the case. I bet no was one of dc1 first words. Some dc ignore it and need physically removing from a situation. Not all children are the same and there have always been some who just wont behave. I think blaming parents is wrong. A child has a mind of it's own. If a child is impulsive the knowledge that they will be punished has little effect.
Even without sen it is clear that things like glue ear have adhd like effects. It is like blaming the dyslexics' parents saying why are you not helping your child more at home you are clearly not reading to them. They are affecting the rest of the class because they/yoy cannot be bothered....
Well that is clearly not true their brains may be different, parents/kids may have put in more effort than classmates.
Naughty kids some may just be more competitive/emotional/jealous/talkative. Or only 4 and want to play and do what they want not write which is very tiring

Tbh I'm pretty astounded at the general level of jibes on here. My DC is not the kid who's been playing up in school at all. I'm simply a bit shocked at the way discipline is enforced.

There is quite a bit of evidence to show that humiliation at a young age is detrimental to a child e.g having the tag of naughty reinforced by consistently being removed from class. I'm not talking about teenagers here, kids who are the same height as a teacher, who can swear like troopers and know their rights. I'm talking about little children. Ones who aren't anywhere close to being emotionally developed yet. Who are sent from class for being a bit silly. It's actions like that that stick. They start to disengage.

Yes I do have reason to suspect the school is a bit OTT. I've had calls from the teacher to say I'm £2 in debt for lunches (one day over!) And that I hadn't provided 'normal clothes' costume for a dress rehersal and one of my DC was told off for throwing a snowball at their teacher. God forbid anyone have fun in the snow (and I did witness the telling off). If anyone's snow flakey it's a teacher who tells a child off for throwing a (single) snowball.

My BF is a primary school teacher and when I tell her half the things I get called about she tells me she only wishes her school in a deprived catchment had those issues to concern themselves with. I'm sorry but catchment is definately a thing. All those invested parents trying to engage their kids and get them into the best local school does make a difference.

You don't get invested parents hoping to send their kids to the underperforming school. It's a shit system, but that's what happens when you pit school against school and create league tables.

Why don't you volunteer in your DC's classroom then. As you seem to have done quite a lot of research, you'll know exactly how to deal with the naughty kids.
Being hit by a snowball can bloody hurt!
Lunch money often has to be paid by a certain date and school has to pay for everything - like a small business. If 100 parents are like you and only a small amount over it all adds up.
Costumes for dress rehersals shows etc are a nightmare if people forget and it stuffs things up for others.

Ninja a child who throws a snowball at a teacher is exhibiting a HUGE lack of respect. That's not normal behaviour for a child in primary...it's disrespectful.

If they all thought that was ok, imagine what would happen?

Catchment can make a difference when it comes to academic results but little shits are threaded throughout our systems no matter where the school is situated.

Well your second paragraph doesn’t actually tallly with anything that’s been said on the thread?

Kids aren’t sent out for a bit of silliness. They’re sent out for persistent disruption - whether the behaviour is ‘silly’ or not remains to be seen; if they don’t stop when asked how do you suggest the teacher addresses it?

If a child is consistently being removed from class then they are badly behaved. They get labels for persisting with bad behaviour. At that age if they don’t get embarrassed, which then curtails the behaviour, then they probably need some other intervention.

Your contact from the school is irrelevant. As is your child getting told off for snowball throwing.

You still haven’t mentioned what you think would be a better option?

Wow then I clearly am a shit parent user. How dare I not be 100% up to date on my lunch payments and forget the 'normal clothes' costume and oh yes the snow ball what a nightmare I am for the school.

What I was trying to say Ninja is that it affects others when you make simple mistakes, (lunch money being late, so school has to cover. Wrong costume, can be a pain for others who have brought costumes and they need to rehearse with everyone in the right outfit so they can get it right for the show). It's not about you personally. Also it's extra work for teachers and admin staff having to chase people up.

The reaction was aimed at the 100 or so digs at me being a snow flake. I happen to think a few things they've pulled me up on have been minor and quite frankly a bit petty. That along with my new knowledge of their discipline methods makes me question how quickly they jump to implement these. It feels like a regular thing from speaking with other parents.

Positive reinforcement Diana.

Wow. Calm down, OP. You asked, lots of people answered, don't ask if you only want people to agree with you.

Snow: yep, you don't throw it at teachers. Even tiny children should respect authority enough to now that teachers aren't there to have things thrown at them.

Lunch debt: the school has a duty of care to you. If they let parents get into massive debt that they can't pay, they end up having to withhold hot lunches from children. So they draw a line in the sand, for your DC's school it's at one missed payment. My DS's school you can't even order lunch without putting money on the account, and after school club refuse sessions if you're a half term in arrears. Just try to see it from their point of view.

This sending a child to another class is humiliating business: it takes a community to raise a child, and that especially applies within a school. All of us choose to behave because we care about the people around us and the consequences of not behaving in an acceptable way. It is absolutely not humiliating to send a child to another class for misbehaving repeatedly. It gives the child time away from the adult/environment, it gives the child space to think, and it gives the child a clear consequence of their actions. Whether they are three or thirteen, if they can't behave and others are suffering as a result - which will in turn be detrimental to the individual child too - then another classroom is a perfectly viable option. Keeping them in the room can escalate the situation, potentially making a huge scene and probably resulting in the humiliation you seem so convinced happens when a child is quietly removed. I've seen my nephew kick off and he's four. I bloody hope they remove him if he does that at school, he's a danger quite frankly, to himself and others.

I'd be more happy with a teacher willing to show my child boundaries and fair consequences, and send them out of the class if that's what they need, than I would be with a teacher who didn't give a crap and couldn't be arsed with discipline. I want my DS's teachers to care about him enough to help raise him to be kind, understanding and respectful.

Finally, I know loads of teachers, several TAs, and the badass woman who serves the lunches. None of them would ever label a child 'naughty'. They're trained not to.

Do you actually think kids throwing snowballs at teachers is OK? Is that a level of respect for teaching staff you are comfortable with?

Clearly it is, and that says it all.

Teach your kids more about respect at home and perhaps it won't fall to their teacher's so much to do so.

I'm a teacher. Sometimes there are occasions when a child is constantly being disruptive the teacher AND the rest of the class needs a break from that child.

Wow. One snowball after a day of being cooped up indoors looking longingly at the dwindling snow. How massively disrespectful. Should have been sent out of class for that

Ok, I'll bite... Just out of curiosity, why do you think it's acceptable for a child to throw a snowball at their teacher, OP?

Because DC had been cooped up all day in school, as they decided to open. The kids weren't allowed out because of h&s. By time they were let out there was a tiny bit left and as we don't get snow often DC was overly excited and ran to get a handful and thought as she's had fun on the way into school having a very gentle game of snowballs with me, thought it was ok to throw one at her teacher who's apparently great fun.