To ask what happened to having traditional values?

[mozzarellasticks]

I'm 23 and from a very young age I was told that it was 'right' to live life in a 'traditional' order.
For example: being in a relationship with someone, buying a house, getting married, and then having kids.
Not trying to be smug or on a high horse, just wondering what happened and why people are getting pregnant after knowing someone for 5 minutes. I'm generally considered to be have old fashioned views but want to know why no one else feels the same way

Christ what a smug thread.

I think that yes you should definitely be in a stable relationship and a stable living situation before having children.

For me it was really important for me to be married before we had children, but I had my house at 21 and married a quite a few years later, then had our son a couple of years after that.

I think you are right that them views are less common, especially on MN, but I don't think people should be "shunned" or "ashamed" if they do it in a different order like they would have been traditionally.

Traditions change because people and life styles change.

People used to get married young because they wanted children or were already pregnant (felt they had to get married before people knew they were pregnant), marriage was forever, people were expected to stay together despite being in abusive relationships, men worked whilst women stayed at home and raised children. Things have changed, houses are too expensive so many can’t buy a home, getting married is expensive and is it really worth it when divorce happens so often? Women work, men raise children and family life is totally different than I was 50 years ago.

What are traditional values Op?

Oh you're right @oftenhangry

Ah well, still don't give a shiny shite about the OPs view

With the best will in the world OP, desires, dreams, hopes and life in general can go tits up. At any time and with no warning. Regardless of what you plan.

How 'traditional' are we going here? Arranged marriages? Yeah no thanks.

I don't believe that cohabiting before marriage is a tradition value.

We did things in the traditionally “correct” order because it was right for us. Each to their own, if people’s personal choices aren’t hurting anyone else, no issue. Exceptions for me would be when children came along or joint property was acquired. not because it was traditionally considered the right thing to do. Just common sense, so everyone had legal protection if one partner died.

I think you're confusing two things here: old-fashioned values and common sense.

You can do things the 'traditional' way and stil have them go wrong. I have a friend who grew up in a very Christian family and did everything 'by the book' (no sex before marriage, marriage, house, then kids). And it fell apart because her husband became more and more abusive. In the end she had to leave both the marriage and the church for her own safety and wellbeing, which was hugely brave and absolutely heartbreaking for her. Just because you do things in some kind of proscribed order does not mean that everything will work out. Time has its tricks to play.

I am amazed, though, by people who have kids with others they have only just met. I have several friends in various phases of separation/divorce right now, on the basis of rather hasty decisions to make such a massive commitment. But then, it can sometimes work. Plus, I'm really risk-averse so I also don't understand spontaneous purchases of expensive items etc. etc. etc.

Catinthetwat, I'm in Liverpool, I had family living in Kirkby, the Woman over the road had nine children. There are families of four and five around me, I occasionally meet people who have more.

It was either drop the idea (as a Society) of there being a right way, or carry on, with the likes of the Magdalena Laundries, removing babies from unwed Mothers, the Woman being branded as Whores, putting gay people in prison, making life impossible for mixed race couples so they split.

And if you live in the US, lynching Black people, especially those that dared to want to date white people.

Do you not see how all of these traditions keep Men in control?

The reasons for needing to hold onto Values and Traditions has been used to incite hatred and holocausts since time began.

Just do your best, in whatever order.

I did do it in the right order according to you (waiting on the kids part) however not for tradition sake, but for my own values.

We got engaged prior to buying a house as I wanted a commitment from my partner before I made a financial commitment.

Bought the house, then got married.

While I would always want to be married before having kids (it's a security thing for me) it was not because of traditional order. We also bought a house before kids as we knew we would have no hope in hell of getting one otherwise with high childcare costs (~950pm).

Just like people are moving away from the typical male/female genders and embracing others, society is doing the same with living circumstances. Does not mean anyone is doing anything in a 'wrong' order.

It's a strange one.

Because my Nigerian friend tells me that it's still traditional for a well established man to have mistresses and as long as he supports any children, no ones has anything to say.

As it was the tradition here at one time.

Slavery is traditional.

Traditional values are generally the values of the patriarchy and/or of a religion that has no longer has any relevance to the world.

Marriage is a comforting fiction founded on impossible promises. In reality it provides very little actual guarantee of anything. Commitment is not measured by a piece of paper or a party.

I'm SO tired of "the way things have always been done" and "the way most people do things" being conflated with "the right/best way to do things."

It's 2019. Be educated. Be compassionate. Be productive. Be yourself. Don't cheat. Don't lie. Don't be a dickhead. Love well. Provide kids with a secure base founded on openness and love from which they can be themselves. That's it, and there's no template for it - you can do or not do any of these things in whatever setup works for you and those you love.

How anyone else wants to organise their lives, relationships, and families is no-one's business unless it's damaging someone else. So quit judging people who choose to do things differently unless you can actually see someone is being harmed by it. This is very different from your 'imagining' of what 'must' be happening in a setup you don't understand.

Many of the most damaging and dysfunctional relationships I know are 'traditional' marriages. It's not measure of anything beyond two people's desire to conform.

There are many traditions that would value being married off to the man of one's family's choice and living with one's in-laws and caring for them. "Traditional values" depends on which traditions you're coming from and how far back you go. It reminds me of Jordan Peterson going on about his more recent thing for suits is 'going back to tradition', people who use "traditional values" as an ideal are often highly selective.

House ownership is a pretty new "value" for it to be considered 'traditional' across the board. For one set of my great grandparents, it was living on a family farm until they sold it off. My paternal grandparents never owned a home as they were housed by their church. My parents got repeated help in buying their house due to my father's job which was far more common at the time. I admit to being part of a weird bunch, but all of those different routes have traditional roots, just different ones due to different chosen lifestyles and life events in and out of our control.

I married at 18, by 23 I was having my third child. I've spent some of my time caring for my in-laws and even lived with them briefly. I guess I might look fairly traditional. It's nothing to do with "traditional values", just our lifestyle mixed with what's come our way. While plenty of people do feel it is an ideal - it's in a lot of the media and social ideals around us so I'm not sure how anyone gets 'no one else feels that way' - I wasn't raised to think that was for me - I was told girls like me are undateable, couldn't get married and certainly shouldn't have kids, to value and kowtow to people based on their wealth and status and above all to shut up. I'm quite happier to have gotten away from those old fashioned values for those like me.

Centuries ago, it was 'tradition' to behead people. l don't think we want to bring that back.

I’m in my 20s and from a young age I was taught to think for myself. That’s why I can think of plenty of reasons why ‘traditional’ lives might not be appropriate or desirable for other people. If you don’t want a baby out of wedlock, don’t have one. Why is it worth starting a thread about?

@formerbabe I live in the East Midlands

You are being smug though and buying into the patriarchy at the same time at the very concept that a women must be married off.

For what it's worth MsSmugness your new username every single person I know who did it the 'traditional' way of "courting" then marriage, house and kids has ended up divorced. They were so keen to get to the 'official' part of their relationship they didn't take stock to see if it was the right relationship to see out their days.

By contrast, all the ones who did things a bit topsy turvy seem to have their ducks in a row and are happily living life in their way.

Besides, tradition is hardly the backbone of a decent country. Look at the 'traditions' of Saudi Arabia. They'd have an argument for continuing poor treatment of women based on 'tradition'. There's a reason traditions die out...they're based on outdated thinking and poor grasp of current reality and acceptable standards.

Surround yourself with people who share your values and keep your nose out of others. Simple. Traditional as you call it isn't for everyone. I'll also add that for many people buying a house before marriage is not traditional.

Without meaning to be horrid but your views arevery ancient, there is nothing wrong with differing or modern appraoches to life. Do what suits you.

@AryaStarkWolf getting married in April actually

Meh. You’re not that traditional. Really traditional people get married to some after a courtship if less than a year, move in together after marriage and then have kids nine to ten months later (depending on when in the woman’s cycle they go hitched). Traditions change. Chill. In our family it’s turned out that most people get engaged after like two months and are expecting a child before the wedding rolls round. It’s just how we choose to live. It’s not a problem.

Also, not everyone woman/man wants to be married, not everyone wants to own a house, some find new modern ways to start a family?!!?? I'm struggling to see why you would make a post about this.

It is perfectly possible to buy a house at 23. I don't think it's a very good idea though. Why not live a bit first? Do the house/mill stone thing later

It's also perfectly possible to buy a House young and live a bit, I lived a lot 😂😂 and it wasn't a millstone.

Well all the young girls I know are married or are getting married. None of them have children yet (talking ages from 22 to 32). Quite a few have bought a flat or house. Oh and that's not in the North but in London and Essex