To wonder if changes in parenting approaches have affected MH on a population level

[SquiddyMcSquidford]

Not a TAAT as such but inspired by this one about how hard life was in the past
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3510138-AIBU-to-wonder-how-some-people-coped-in-former-times

A lot of people have talked about how parenting was much less hands on then, that parents provided food and shelter and that was all. Nowadays things are very different for most families in the UK and yet we hear a lot about children, adolescents and young adults experiencing MH problems in greater numbers than previously. Does this imply it's actually better not to parent in a hands on way? Or is it solely due to other factors like better recognition of MH issues, lack of community spirit, pressure/competitiveness over academic achievement/jobs?

Obviously it's multifactorial but I'm interested to hear what others think about this.

Read 'Permission to Parent'. She's a psychotherapist to young people in NY and says the increase in anxiety is down to lack of firm boundaries now. I've seen it a lot with friends - children having to have 3 rounds of last turn before they get off a piece of play equipment, multiple 5 minutes warnings to leave the playground and then more time when they fuss. Her perspective is if you don't learn 'no' at home you'll suffer much more as an adult as lots of things are 'no'. My sister and I were spoilt and bother suffer from anxiety.

Yes 100 years ago kids feelings were not considered by a lot of parents in many issues. But most parents themselves had very tough lives. Most adults were underfed, worked long hours often in dangerous difficult jobs, and some had been at war. Feeding and keeping your children alive took a lot of day to day energy.
And well off kids had parents who were largely brought up by servants and schools. Although some adults of the time write very fondly about how loving and caring their nannies were.

I think the micro management of kids by their parents has a big part to play driven by competitive parenting and perfectionism.

Friendships are engineered by parents from an early age with parents keen that their DC are friends with the right people. I know parents that will only invite high achieving and impeccably behaved kids for play dates regardless of who their DC actually want to play with. They are not free to form their own relationships so many friendships are superficial and kids lack that experience of making true connections and friendships for themselves.

Many kids I know today have a full on diary of extra curricular activities and go from school to tutors to activities then home to homework and spend all weekends and holidays at activities. While I am a great believer in extra curricular activities, I think sometimes there is excessive pressure on kids to to more and more. It is now not enough to do well at school and get good grades, everyone has to be a star footballer, athlete, gymnast, dancer, musician, do volunteering, DofE etc. I for one am very glad that my DPs didn’t put this pressure on me.

But actually losing that special toy at bedtime can help a child to experience the feeling and with parental guidance work out how to deal with it. Then They can deal with similar bigger or smaller problems.

I totally agree with the point being made here, but this example in particular made me question how much of this limiting of the negative experiences is actually just a symptom of exhausted parents who are so over worked and have so little time with their kids that any perceived negativity is just another strain on their time and is prevented in an attempt to make the most of the hour between nursery pick up and bed. Not in all cases of course, but in general terms.

I think that certain problems in society haven't ever really been dealt with and have just rumbled from generation to generation. Now they are finally reaching a melting point. Probably because of social media and the ease of many people communicating about the same things. Parenting styles will shift and react and try to cope but to say that parenting has a greater effect over mental health than the pressures of society is for me a step too far and just another way of blaming the little person for societies failings. Kids are exposed to society from no age, most people aren't even aware of the societal forces that affect every part of their lives.

My MH problems were caused by my mother, and her's by her father and oldest brother. But in reality, the whole situation was caused by the societal forces that made women less respected than men, the lack of recognition of autism, and the general consensus in farming communities that children were free labour and their lives/education/prospects meant nothing because the girls would marry another farmer and the boys would inherit.

So in terms of the question in the title, IMO it is a chicken and egg scenario. Who can say which one is causing the other. All I know is that I think the focus needs to move to government, policy and a wider examination of what we consider to be acceptable in the mainstream media and on social media, because blaming individuals or specific generations and basically turning in on each other isn't getting us anywhere.

clairemcnam This is spot-on for me:

I have read lots of young adults who have been helicopter parented talking about how anxious it has made them. They talk about growing up being told that everything was dangerous, and not allowed to do anything for themselves.

I had a parent like this in the 1990s. I think I have something of a natural predisposition to anxiety anyway, but the combination of that and this particular sort of upbringing really didn't help.

Someone upthread gave the example of young people in their twenties being worried about going on a train journey.

I remember asking to get a train somewhere in my early teens. I was told no, for reasons including that I might get lost, miss the train, miss my stop, have problems changing trains, get mugged, get pushed onto the railway line, get kidnapped or attacked...

Some of those things are highly unlikely. Others are problems that sometimes happen with public transport and that it's useful to know how to deal with. By setting them up as disasters, something as simple as getting a train becomes something scary and that it's possible to get wrong in lots of ways. Presenting the possibility of missing your train as a reason not to travel by train, instead of an inconvenience and/or extra expense, but a solvable problem, really skews the way you think about the world.

And when it's not just trains, but anything you want to do independently, what you learn is that the world is a very scary place and that you aren't capable of functioning in it - and if you try, it's very likely that something bad will happen to you. Then suddenly you're 18 or 20 and older adults are ridiculing you for not being able to do simple things, and it makes it even more stressful because you should be able to do them, but you still feel incapable, and the idea of trying and possibly making silly mistakes because you haven't done it before seems even more overwhelming.

(I'm now past 30 and have been completely fine with trains for many years but there are still some other instances where the anxieties creep in).

I agree, I think some people have this expectation that we can treat teenagers like children because carefully managing their risks is less stressful for the adults responsible for them and yet somehow they will reach adulthood with appropriate life skills.

Having worked with teenagers for more years than I care to remember, I am 100% convinced that smothering overprotectiveness is every bit as detrimental to a child's mental health as an overly harsh or critical parent.

I am coming across increasing numbers of parents who seem to believe that it is their job to shield their DC from ever experiencing any anxiety, disappointment or discomfort whatsoever, which if course isn't healthy and doesn't prepare the for life. Just a few recent examples include, the Mother of a Sixth Form girl direct messaging the girls ex-boyfriend asking him to "reconsider" his decision to break up with her daughter, the parents of a Y11 student keeping him off school for two weeks following the death of a family pet and then demanding his Teachers make time to catch him up on everything he missed and a Mother who called in sick to a Work Experience placement on her DD's behalf and then admitted to me that she let her stay at home because she had a spot (that's right, not severe acne, one spot) and she was "embarrassed".

I am seeing more and more teenagers who absolutely go to pieces (I'm talking really disproportionate levels of distress) at the smallest set-back and who refuse to attempt anything that pushes them even slightly out of their comfort zone. Every day I hear "I can't do X because of my Anxiety" or "my DC shouldn't have to do X because of their Anxiety" and 9 times out of 10, it turns out that they have never even seen a MH professional or been to a GP about their mental health, yet alone been formally diagnosed with an Anxiety Disorder. What they mean is "I shouldn't have to do anything that makes me feel anxious" which unfortunately just isn't how the world works! Please don't get me wrong, I am all for making reasonable adjustments for students with genuine MH problems and will advocate for those kids fiercely at every opportunity. But we've reached a stage where parents are demanding all kinds of adjustments for kids who are experiencing perfectly normal, natural human emotions.

I genuinely worry about how these kids will cope out in the real world, how they will function in the workplace and negotiate the ups and downs of family life and adult relationships.

@ohmydaysagain I totally agree. I work in a primary school and 100% of our anxious children have very anxious parents.

I don’t disagree with the general point but it’s out of order bringing it here

Feel free to report it if you think I'm breaking guidelines

If you look at the statistics (will try and link some) you will see that approx 70% of patients receiving care or treatment from a mental health trust have a root cause of childhood sexual abuse. I once asked a department manger at work (NHS mental health trust) how many of her patients have history of childhood sexual abuse, and she answered immediately with no hesitation ‘all of them, every single one’! Now obviously there are always other factors and it would be much lower for other departments, depending on the mental health issue (I.e. dementia ward would have lower percentage).

I am talking about mental health issues serious enough to affect quality of life and to mean people can’t ‘cope’ etc. Not mild anxiety or depression which affect quality of life, but you still function.

@Ploppymoodypants that's really interesting and very sad. I remember reading/hearing on a documentary that people in prison (especially women) have a much higher rate of having been sexually abused in childhood too, though I can't remember where.

I haven't read the full thread so don't know if this has been touched on.

On some ways I think parenting is harder these days. Not in the practical sense, we have all the mod-cons etc but mentally. And I don't even have school age children yet. As a new mum I've seen or been part of Facebook mums groups, general 'mummy' social media, endless information about risks (some perfectly sensible, like safe sleeping guidance some other stuff based on opinion/modern views rather than fact) and countless opinions on parenting 'styles'.

Take the Wonder Weeks thing for example. All these 'leaps' and expected 'fussy periods'. I was talking to my mum (who had us in the 80s) about them the other day and she looked and me like so was such a wally. 'What's this? Leaps? Sleep regressions? Babies are babies, sometimes they sleep and sometimes they don't. That's just how babies are!'

She's not wrong.

It's not bad thing that children are better protected and generally better treated these days then in years gone by. It's definitely no bad thing that abuse and even benign neglect are no longer acceptable. But I think on the other side of the coin new parents are allowing their natural instincts and just general commons sense to be overtaken in a sea of books, apps and social media peer groups. It's no surprise that children are 'overparented' with the deluge of information /advice out there. No, I won't allow my small child to roam the streets playing alone, potentially to be hit by a car, abducted, etc. But I will chuck her in our enclosed back garden by herself (with me sticking my head out of the door every ten minutes) and let her explore and get on with it.?She might skin a knee here and there but she'll be fine.

I read something a while ago that said it's a parents job to give their child love, shelter, food, education, roots and wings. The rest is up to them. Makes sense to me.

Between my first and second baby I've binned the books, deleted the apps and refused to join any bloody mum groups on FB etc. I don't google. I asked recently experienced mum friends for advice if I come up against something I don't know about, sometimes I take that advice and others I don't. It's time to trust our own instincts again, within the realms of actual sensible safety guidelines.