To wonder if changes in parenting approaches have affected MH on a population level

[SquiddyMcSquidford]

Not a TAAT as such but inspired by this one about how hard life was in the past
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3510138-AIBU-to-wonder-how-some-people-coped-in-former-times

A lot of people have talked about how parenting was much less hands on then, that parents provided food and shelter and that was all. Nowadays things are very different for most families in the UK and yet we hear a lot about children, adolescents and young adults experiencing MH problems in greater numbers than previously. Does this imply it's actually better not to parent in a hands on way? Or is it solely due to other factors like better recognition of MH issues, lack of community spirit, pressure/competitiveness over academic achievement/jobs?

Obviously it's multifactorial but I'm interested to hear what others think about this.

I was not a parent in the 90s but was working with kids. Hitting kids was no longer seen as acceptable, but I remember a lot of parents struggling to come up with alternative discipline methods. Most kids were already not playing outside unsupervised unless they lived in a close or similar. Of course there were neglected kids who were shoved out the door first thing and told not to come back until tea.

Op my parents were the same, a latchkey childhood was most people’s experience. I definitely would have preferred much more quality time with my parents. I also wished they had cared a little more about what we were actually doing. It was lazy parenting to some degree, an easier life perhaps for them?

Everyone talks up the virtues of freedom, and I did enjoy mine. It wasn’t always idyllic though, nostalgic rose tinted glasses plays a part. I nearly died twice, dislocated bones, tore my flesh on barbed wire, was sexually abused by an older child and I was one of the lucky ones! Others ended up with drink or drug issues from early exposure, run over etc. It was fun but it was sometimes dangerous and I grew up in the countryside.

Latchkey kids existed because mums had to work for money and there was often no childcare if relatives could or would not help.

Hayhighlights, this topic was handled on anyther thread about smacking but I wouldn’t expect anyone who HAS been abused to understand how meaningless a smack can be in a loving, stable and supportive home. Always as a direct result of very bad behaviour and never done to feed a parents malice. Sure mum only did it occasionally when she lost control but I always knew two things. I deserved it. And my mum hated doing it more than me. In an abusive home it’s used VERY differently.

You sound like an abused wife tbh

I don't actually believe that we are seeing more mental health issues in young people, more that they feel more able to talk about them, so that they get more reported
What has changed is the label we've given it and how it is dealt with.

A lot of the way kids feel nowadays doesn't seem much different to how we felt a generation ago. Not feeling comfortable in your boots, knowing where you belonged, being teased (now referred as bullied), feeling your parents don't understand, not knowing what to do in the future and feeling pressured to do well at school by teachers and parents.

The difference I feel is that all the is was considered the normal part of growing up and looking back, that is indeed how I feel. I went through a stage of depression, feeling rejected, not really knowing who I was and feeling nobody understood me. I got over it like most do as we age and get through each stage of youth.

Nowadays though, any feelings that is not one of joy and happiness is considered 'abnormal' and needing a resolution. Nobody should feel sad, pressured, worried, confused and if you do, solutions need to be put in place - by others--to reach a stage of perfect contentment. No kidding kids feel under pressure as it seems they feel they are not allowed to feel anything negative.

The reality is most of us will feel down and negative at times and that's ok because life is full of ups and downs and that's what we should tell our kids rather than automatically taking the approach of 'oh poor you, it's not fair, what can I do to make it better for you', installing a sense of dependence on others rather than growing confidence and resilience in themselves.

You sound angry and damaged. Sorry for whatever you’ve been through. And that’s not your fault. But taking it out on people on the internet won’t help you.

I’m not. I just think that someone talking about physical abuse with a wooden spoon and an epic childhood in the same post has issues and it is sad.

and I tried every technique in the book to get my mum to come get me but in the end I dealt with the situation myself (raged, then cried it out, then begged, then stopped and assessed the situation, calmed down and waited to be told I could come down and apologise)

I think this is important because this parenting style worked for you. I think the problem with the past is that there was only really one or two "styles" and as such, it didn't take into account the different personalities of your child at all.

DS has a few things to overcome including moderate sensory issues. Long before these were formally diagnosed or recognised, DH and I have been aware that there's something different in how he responds to things. And we've often talked about how lucky he/we are that he was born to us and not my sister. This really came home to us recently when we read a case study about children with SPD and the example, and different ways for parents to respond, resonated hugely with us. One point was that for many parents facing a child reluctant to do something because of SPD is to enforce additional discipline. The child does what is required but the underlying issue is not address and the child withdraws as the only way he/she has to manage or attempt to regain any sense of control over their physical responses. There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that if DS was my sister's child, this would have been how she handled it. And instead of the relatively confident, happy and outgoing child we have, she'd have had a much more withdrawn, nervous child on her hands.

She herself has acknowledged that the progress he has made is amazing and is starting to understand his issues. But her sympathy has, traditionally, been almost non-exsitent. And for years, DH and I have battled with comments made my our families, mine in particular, about DS just needing to "get on with it".

I don’t think you can understand but it makes no difference to me. My parents were and are about as good as parents get. I’ve been very lucky. Smack on the bum occasionally or not!

I think the biggest problem is the rise of technology and social media.

It takes us away from what we need as humans - being in touch with nature, ourselves and each other. Even my 9 year old recognises that he loves being outside as opposed to inside on screens all the time. But screen based technology is so addictive!

Studies tell us the mental health benefits of exercise, gardening etc but how much of that do we prioritise.....

The fact we are all on here instead of gardening might be a giveaway

spring

I think there’s a huge difference between being hit with a wooden spoon and an occasional smack on the bum.

So true @Springwalk

Bling, of course a child with additional needs would need different treatment. And my sister and I were very different characters and my parents worked hard to accommodate both our natures and treat us fairly but in some ways differently depending on our needs. One thing that never changed was the warmth and hugs and affection from them. She would say now that parenting is hard and you never know if you’re getting it right or not but they did get it very right overall with a few little blips that we’re always with the best intentions.

Auntie - I don't disagree with you. I'm just pointing out that in the past, a LOT Of parents DIDN'T adapt parenting styles to take things like DS' issues into account. And his issues would not have been recognised or diagnosed in the first place. Even now, my dad struggles to understand the problem and keeps saying, "but surely he'll grow out of it?" And that's where I get my belief that the shift in how we parent (and educate) as a society is a good thing.

(Off topic a bit)

Latchkey kids existed because mums had to work for money and there was often no childcare if relatives could or would not help.

That's not changed though, a lot of mums still work. Is it just that there is more childcare available now and/or that it's more affordable?

Latchkey kids were school aged, on a similar note I don't remember as many "nurseries" being around when I was growing up in the 80s. Did I just not notice? Or did fewer mums work when their kids were preschool age?

Incidentally, my older brother was "difficult" and today, is still very difficult and very much the black sheep of the family. But how much of that is because my parents inadvertently made mistakes? How much is because they had internalised this idea that as the oldest, and a boy, he had to BE a certain way and he just wasn't? So there was constant conflict between him and them?

I had counselling in my 20s. And one thing I came out of it really understanding is that I've been able to build a strong relationship with my parents partly because I can and do see that they were doing the best they could with the information and experience they had. Doesn't change the fact that they did things wrong in how they brought me up, and I suspect, also in how they brought up my brother.

Fewer mums worked. And it was seen as socially acceptable to leave kids alone. I knew a lot of kids who weren’t even latchkey kids and just wandered around, inevitably getting into trouble, until their mums got home from work.

Sorry Bling, I was on the defensive about my parents after Hayhighlights accusations about them😂 But they were more open and flexible about children and their varying needs than maybe a lot of my friends families when I think about it. So probably there was a more one size fits all style of parenting in those days typically.

Yes I do think that modern parenting is having unforeseen consequences

Threads I've read illustrate how much times have changed from my own upbringing (80s/90s)

Ones about micromanaging friendships were the mothers are calling each other on the phone and getting involved in policing normal teen behaviour

Or mothers arguing in general over whether their children SHOULD be friends

Angst over kids parties and people involving TEACHERS over lack of invites
Ditto people INSISTING that a sibling be invited to the same party and turning up unannounced with them, because they'd rather be rude to another family than have their child learn the lesson that they aren't always invited

Kicking off on teachers because they've told their child off or given a detention. Micromanaging their child's workload

We were pretty much told "get on with it"

The above can all be damaging.

Flip side though: being bullied at school and no one giving a shit. Bullying can be sneaky and complex and can go on in groups of friends. Exclusion (parties and the like) can definitely be a form of bullying.

Teachers can be awful bullies and I don’t mind parents wanting to clarify something. Obviously if a parent is an arse about it that’s different.

MH is better recognised but also teaching resilience to kids is at an all time low and 'every child is equally a winner/participation trophies' at an all time high still.

Basically wishy washy parenting and selfish pandering to reduce their own stress results in kids that can't cope very well in the real world.

It was lazy parenting to some degree, an easier life perhaps for them?

Agreed. But maybe this was down to expectations? When my parents had kids they expected that I'd bother them as little as possible. That their parenting duties would end at bedtime and that I'd fit in with what they wanted in life. As far as I can tell they didn't adjust their lives as much when they had kids as our generation generally do now, and we all just lived in the same house rather than doing much together inter-generationally. Maybe that was easier, but I think the modern approach generally results in closer relationships and actually allows parents to enjoy having kids more, despite the sacrifices to our personal free time etc..

My DM definitely went in over bullying or a serious matter

but

If you were told off the response was :

What did you do ?

And if you lied and said nothing you weren't automatically believed