To wonder if changes in parenting approaches have affected MH on a population level

[SquiddyMcSquidford]

Not a TAAT as such but inspired by this one about how hard life was in the past
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3510138-AIBU-to-wonder-how-some-people-coped-in-former-times

A lot of people have talked about how parenting was much less hands on then, that parents provided food and shelter and that was all. Nowadays things are very different for most families in the UK and yet we hear a lot about children, adolescents and young adults experiencing MH problems in greater numbers than previously. Does this imply it's actually better not to parent in a hands on way? Or is it solely due to other factors like better recognition of MH issues, lack of community spirit, pressure/competitiveness over academic achievement/jobs?

Obviously it's multifactorial but I'm interested to hear what others think about this.

Walk to school alone at 7?

That's perfectly normal in many parts of the world (The other examples aren't, IMO)

My DM went in over bullying, because it was so bad I was refusing to go to school. She and my teacher agreed it was happening because I was weird, and I just needed to fit in better so it would stop happening.

Can't imagine that happening today.

I agree walk to school alone at 7 is no big deal. But going to a fairground at 6 alone on the evening is the kind of thing that I would have reported to SS at the time. That was dangerous.

Thing is, I see this a lot.

Oh, once upon a time, you’d get a detention at school and a whack at home as well.

In other words, you’re encouraging a culture of secrecy and lies

BartonHollow yes we did have to "get on with it" . Parents didn't micromanage - you were lucky if they managed at all. I walked to school alone from the age of 7 - 45 minutes each way through quite busy streets. Never had anyone pick me up, ever. If it rained you got wet. If you got into trouble at school, that was your problem , and the teachers were free to hit you for any misdemeanor. I don't recall my parents ever inquiring how I was doing at school, and when I dropped out they simply said "well you'd better get a job then" .

I'm not convinced that it was better then - yes we grew up resilient, but many problems were ignored . The pendulum has swung too far now - hopefully it'll swing back to the middle at some time in the future.

But it was normal claire

Maybe frowned upon, but still well within the boundaries of normal. And in the case I’m thinking of, with tragic outcomes.

I know this is maybe a bit of a segue but to plug into the OPs first post it gives me hope when I see programmes like “Bing” on CBeebies manage children’s distress and disappointment.

I can say with absolute conviction the way that Flop has to sometimes “let Bing down” because he cannot “fix” the problem encountered has led me to have more honest conversations with my very little children.

See the “Butterfly” episode for a good example of this.

As you were, guys.

I think micro managing is unhealthy for kids. And there were people campaigning against kids being hit since the 60s.
And some parents still think it is fine to hit kids.

I don't agree that it's one or the other

Eg it's a detention at school AND a whack at home ergo a culture of secrecy and lies and abuse

Children do need a voice and be heard but at the same time parents going blazing done to the school to berate staff with :

YOU CANT SAY THAT TO MY JOHNNY HE'S DUN NUFFINK WRONG

When in fact Johnny has a future of Crimewatch appearances ahead of him

Is apparently all too common at secondary according to my many teacher friends

There has to be a balance in it

Look how many posts there are on here, of parents complaining their well-behaved children get overlooked at school for prizes/awards etc. Instead of advising parents to explain to their children that not everyone can be recognised for everything, you see post after post advising them to have a quiet word with the teacher.

Our schools have evolved so that everyone needs to be rewarded for everything, always (and no one is ever allowed to fail anything - or at least, to have realised that they've failed) but real life hasn't altered at all - is there any surprises these children can't cope when they grow up? And they can't - we see that in the current crop of university students, and it's been this way for a good ten years.

And this narrative anyone can be anything they want, and should be indulged, is harmful : yes, OK, my feelings were a bit hurt as a six year old when my mother told me that I was never going to be a ballerina. For about two hours. Children are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for, but we deskill them in this through constantly intervening to interrupt the truth.

Yes, there's better recognition of MH problems now, and yes, there's probably a tendency now to over-medicalisation - but sea changes in schooling and parenting also play a role.

@Birdie6

Totally agree

Children are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for, but we deskill them in this through constantly intervening to interrupt the truth

BANG. ON.

@hefzi for PM!

Haven’t personally experienced that.

But believe me there were plenty of defensive parents back in the 80s. Wouldn’t you be, if someone CANED your son?

I’m early 30’s so I’m not going back that far. My dm thinks her dgs is hard done by because I won’t get an in car DVD player for long journeys. We used to drive from Scotland to the south of France without so much as the radio on because Mum and dad liked to talk to each other. Just me in the back staring out the window.
I do think Ds never has an opportunity to be bored, which I think I weird. I was bored a lot. And I think boredom is important for attention spans and persistence.
Also I went to 4 large city schools and never came across any kind of disability, despite what I’m told I was in millions classes and can’t remember anything beyond an eye patch. I think disabilities were not recognised or were hidden away somewhere. Definitely a belief the like of DS meant you were never going to achieve anything.
Life is definitely safer and easier now for the vast majority but I don’t think modern parenting is all it’s cracked up to be (I am extremely soft on Ds though so also a massive hypocrite)

I have read lots of young adults who have been helicopter parented talking about how anxious it has made them. They talk about growing up being told that everything was dangerous, and not allowed to do anything for themselves.
You build confidence by doing things that are a little bit scary.

The current uni students exams is a good one, a uni friend now works at our old uni and she says extraordinary amounts of parents are directly ringing departments disputing grades even for essays not exams, and it's because the student has become a consumer of a learning service for which the parent is paying.

My DM and DF never even met our lecturers

My sister works in mental health. She says the majority of people she sees within a hospital setting, also have some history of trauma. So I think you are bu- I doubt the levels of traumatic childhoods have changed much.

You are seeing and aware of mental health issues because

• there’s been successful campaigns to bring it to public attention (time to change, heads together)
• mental health services are in crisis due to lack of funds and thus people are unwell and visible (there used to be a full discharge service where my sister works. Now there are three or four people)
• universal credit is particularly difficult for people with disabilities/vulnerable people to negotiate and thus you see more people forced into homelessness etc

‘Helicopter parenting’ is never going to be as much of an issue as neglectful or inadequate parenting. The damage is just not comparable.

That is true what you are saying

RE a high evidence base of Sectionable Mental Health having a trauma basis

But 1 in 4 people have MH issues but not all of those people have need or will ever have need for a hospital stay and the availability of secondary services isn't there for common or garden MH because of the need for complex trauma MH patients to access those services.

@bartonhollow true. I’m very sceptical of any interpretation that basically implies ‘things aren’t what they used to be’. Which is what this boils down to for me!

Thank you, Paul

I was a child of the 80s and had enormous levels of freedom, I walked to school with a group of mixed aged kids from the street from the second term of primary school, we used to get in from school, get changed as soon as possible and run out the door to play with strict instructions to be back for dinnertime and clear rules about where we were allowed to go. I rode my bike for miles as a 12 year old, sometimes on roads with very little traffic and was allowed to get the bus into town from around the same age.

All of those things built resilience.

Children are a lot more capable than many adults give them credit for.

The 80s wasn't a panacea though, pretty brutal physical punishment was the norm in my house, there were a load of terrible teachers who no parent ever stood up to and a lot of bullying.

‘Helicopter parenting’ is never going to be as much of an issue as neglectful or inadequate parenting. The damage is just not comparable.

Absolutely.

RE a high evidence base of Sectionable Mental Health having a trauma basis

But 1 in 4 people have MH issues but not all of those people have need or will ever have need for a hospital stay and the availability of secondary services isn't there for common or garden MH because of the need for complex trauma MH patients to access those services

Just because someone doesn't require inpatient services doesn't mean there is not a trauma link to their MH. In my experience the vast majority of people I know or have met with MH issues (I'm a student MH nurse and have my own MH diagnosis) have a background of some form of trauma or adverse childhood experience (ACE). ACEs are increasingly being looked at when supporting children and young people with MH issues because the link it there.

It have yet to meet anyone with a MH issue whose only complaint was that their parents were just too damn nice. Over parenting is not the issue.

Except the choice is not neglectful/abusive parenting or helicoptering parenting.

@BiglyBadgers

That's really interesting what you've said, my professional/personal background is MH also and I've never heard ACE used before.

But mild anxiety and depression can be linked to being unprepared for the challenges of life without reducing it to no-one gets mental health issues because their parents were "too nice" which is not really what this thread is trying to say I don't think

Micromanaging and helicoptering aren't being too nice they are being suffocating and overbearing and as @Hefzi said about deskilling children