To wonder if changes in parenting approaches have affected MH on a population level

[SquiddyMcSquidford]

Not a TAAT as such but inspired by this one about how hard life was in the past
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3510138-AIBU-to-wonder-how-some-people-coped-in-former-times

A lot of people have talked about how parenting was much less hands on then, that parents provided food and shelter and that was all. Nowadays things are very different for most families in the UK and yet we hear a lot about children, adolescents and young adults experiencing MH problems in greater numbers than previously. Does this imply it's actually better not to parent in a hands on way? Or is it solely due to other factors like better recognition of MH issues, lack of community spirit, pressure/competitiveness over academic achievement/jobs?

Obviously it's multifactorial but I'm interested to hear what others think about this.

It was accepted as okay, acceptable.

‘Back in the day we played out from 7 in the morning till 7 at night!’ That is true and it isn’t mentioned that there was a very dark side to that. Predatory individuals who preyed upon vulnerable children, traffic fatalities, accidents on farms (remember that film?) railways, electricity pylons, bullies ...

I mean today isn’t perfect and I agree children need to play alone but it needs supervision up to a point.

I think children are literally being left mentally unable to cope with the demands of life by the risk averse society - and sadly the huge increase in car ownership that stopped them playing outside with their friends.

Children need to play without adults around - to make decisions/ understand how to build relationships, when to trust someone, when to take a risk - this was, for thousands of years, how children turned into adults. But now - they are children until they leave home! There will be some people going to UNi who have barely ever done anything without an adult involved. I think its very very sad. a crisis in fact.

haylights Your experience was neglect. I played outside all day. I played out the back and front of our house. My mum used to go outside and shout if she wanted us. There were also plenty of other mums about.

And children in farms are still more likely to die. I have a lot of farmers in my family. The issue is family farms where children help out almost as soon as they can walk. Farms are full of dangerous machinery and yes in this kind of farm not all parents are vigilant enough to that. But absolutely nothing to do with the 70s or now. It is still an issue. What has made the deaths decline is that that type of small family farm is becoming rarer.

Neglect was OK in the 70s/80s.

Oh, serious neglect might still get you in trouble, but letting kids roam neglect? No way!

I absolutely agree that helicopter parenting doesn't help.
A 7yo child I know is an absolute bundle of nerves. He is the centre of his parents universe, and everything they do is about him. No hobbies of their own. Holidays where he wants to go. But the pressure on this little boys shoulders is immense. 'Where do you want to go Bob? What do you want to do bob?' The happiness of his parents rests on him. On their part they would counter 'oh pardon me for caring about Bob.' Just leave him alone for one minute, please.

I think the difference was that anxiety wasn't automatically considered a bad thing and only became so if it was severed or on-going.

Nowadays, any challenge that is a normal part of life is thrown at kids as something to be anxious about and to avoid at all costs. This leaves kids scared of everything and seeking avoidance of any situations that could possibly lead to some anxiety. This leads to kids not getting the opportunity to build any reliance.

When my kids are scared of something and don't want to do it, I remind them how they think they felt about taking their first steps. They don't remember but that doesn't mean it wasn't a very scary thing to do. Yet they did when they were ready without any pressure and before they knew it, it became the most natural thing for them to do. If nature didn't kick in and thought processes had got in the way, would they have never dared to walk and end up crawling for the rest of their lives always convincing themselves that it is something they could never do?

It is natural instinct as parents to protect our kids from fear and anxiety but by doing so, we are encouraging them to belive they can't achieve what is normal tasks once they are tackled a few times. Who is not scared of a job interview, driving the first time, going somewhere new on our own, picking up the phone to make an appointment? All normal everyday life tasks that shouldn't hold anyone yet do because kids are taught it is OK to avoid these.

8Haylights* I think you have personal issues here that are affecting your views. You are ignoring everyone's posts and just keep repeating yourself. I was looking after kids in the 80s for a living, I know what was acceptable and what was not. And what SS would intervene for and what they would not. Sorry you are wrong, But I am sorry your parents were so crap.

Do people remember those gruesome public information films of the 70s and 80s? They started because children were getting into very dangerous situations due to not being supervised. Interestingly, a lot of them addressed their message primarily to children - putting the onus on them to keep out of danger, which suggests that the culture of lax supervision was very ingrained. I wonder if the ones addressed to parents tended to be later?

I think a generation or two ago we had a culture that was adult-centred in all sorts of ways, some of which were damaging - the safety aspect, also the idea of elders = betters and children being seen and not heard. A lot of this was simply an excuse for the uninhibited acting out of adult authority. I don't doubt that today's child-centredness is a corrective to that. I also don't think that 'snowplough' parenting is as widespread as the media might have us believe - there's a neo-authoritarian tendency (you see it on here sometimes) that loves to use these stories as the parenting equivalent of 'PC gone mad'. Where I do think we have gone awry is in reverting to the opposite extreme of neglectful parenting - cf. the thread about leaving a 12 and 10yo alone, where there are people saying they would certainly not. Somehow a culture has sprung up which tries to eliminate all perceived physical risk while leaving a lot of emotional risks in place - 'advancement' is now measured in a child growing out of 'babyish' toys by Reception and being able to watch and (allegedly) follow Harry Potter films by 4.

I still see neglected children getting into dangerous situations. It is not uncommon. I know a girl who was killed after trying to cut across a railway line. The real difference is that parents these days would not accept such gruesome films being shown.

Hmm. I went to s hool with many girls who were bright but weren't going to go to uni. It was ok to get 1/2/3 O'Levels, do a secretarial course, directors lunches, interior design, flower arranging. Some of the boys I knew (late 70s) were similar, estate agency, land managers, etc.

So many more pressures now. Many of those people have been v successful too - looking back probably a bit of dyslexia, bit of adhd/add etc. Nobody knew but it was perfectly ok not to be academic and unless you wanted a careerbin medicine or engineering not particularly necessary.

And then it all changed.

While the child-focused parenting style of today can be taken too far by many parents, I believe it is broadly speaking significantly better. I have known many many older people who very clearly have mental health problems and/or have been damaged in some way but were never able to acknowledge this. I had a conversation with a friend last week about her MIL who very clearly has a problem, but while her son and daughter have both tried to get her to see someone, she has refused. The stigma and all that....

I think my parents were, mostly, quite good. But they were also products of their time. As we've been trying to navigate the schooling issues for two children who are completely different, it's made me look back on my own education and the approach that was taken. And I realise that while my parents always told me I was intelligent and capable, the way I was educated did not reflect this. I don't remember EVER being acknowledged for academic competence until high school, and there was never any effort made to help me maximise or use this. The view was very much that it was up to me alone to do well at school - no effort was ever made by my teachers or parents to find ways to channel or support my intelligence. I did okay at school, but looking back, I suspect if I'd been brought up in the kind of society we have today, I'd have done a lot better. I don't resent anyone for this - it was what it was. But I'm glad that my DD is unlikely to experience the same effect.

Haylights, I was 5 in 1980 and I didn't do any of those things. Yes, I played outside all day but in no way was that neglect. I had an amazing childhood and I'm sad that my daughter won't be able to experience her childhood in that way.

I think it was bad in one way in the past but is now bad in the opposite way if that makes sense

Kids these days basically grow up in a bunker. When they had the freedom to roam, they would have had a much larger range of relationships with friends, shopkeepers, neighbours, relatives etc. It's much more claustrophobic to be hanging around with parents all the time.
That and the school leaving age was much lower back then. I don't think it's a bad thing that it's higher now but it's an extended period of academic pressure people didn't use to have.

Children are generally much much better cared for and valued than they used to be. Physical punishment is now illegal and as a result I think we will see a much kinder generation break through, they also seem less materialistic, not all, but many seem to value their health and well being, over and above possessions and money now.

Society judgement via SM and internet. Loss of community and identity is also a factor.

Overall the biggest impact is felt by today’s parents, and pressure to provide a perfect childhood in the back drop of an imperfect world.

AndItStill

Spot on.

Actually, I wasn’t talking about me, although I did nearly drown a few times. My examples were all cases of kids who were abducted and murdered. Young, young kids, alone. I’m not talking about 10/11 year olds where I think independence starts. I’m talking about 7 year olds alone on fairgrounds, 5 year olds alone on parks.

Apaches was the farm PIF wasn’t it?

I had a seriously epic childhood in the 80’s lots of freedom and a loving, supportive home to come home to in the evenings. If I misbehaved I wasn’t pandered to. If I failed at something, I was told to try harder next time. If there was something difficult or dangerous even, I was monitored but not nevessarily stopped. There were a few times I was sent to my room after a wooden spoon on the butt for pushing my mum too far, and I tried every technique in the book to get my mum to come get me but in the end I dealt with the situation myself (raged, then cried it out, then begged, then stopped and assessed the situation, calmed down and waited to be told I could come down and apologise).

I’ve very strong self confidence, resilience and mental health. And I attribute it to my upbringing. A lot of what I see going on in people’s houses now in terms of parenting and spoiling and getting everything they ask for, when I think about how I would have felt as a child I am certain those helicopter ways would have left me unsure and anxious. Which leads to other problems.

If you think ‘a wooden spoon on the butt’ equates to an ‘epic childhood’ there’s a problem.

I think mental health is better understood and recognised now.

I think the world has changed in ways that create more pressure for most of us, including young people, and that pretending it's all about over attentive parents is a bit daft.

She doesn't though does she? It's one incident in an otherwise epic childhood. And of course you can be a non-helicopter parent without smacking.

I'm not so sure that this is as clear cut as pps have said. Agree that bad news from all over the world beemed in to teens smart phones is extremely anxiety provoking (apart from the six o'clock news and the morning paper, my generation lived largely in blissful ignorance of unsettling world events when we were DC).

But out of necessity it is fairly routine for many nursery and junior school age DC to spend long hours away from their parents in nurseries or wrap around care. Does no one consider that might be somewhat anxiety provoking for them and they might need to develop resilience to cope with that? Ditto moving between two sets of parents. I'm not sure modern life is as easy as some people are making out on here.

Agree that parental input and interest in DC education is generally much improved however!

I don't know, I think it can go the other way, too. I think being too routine-led and independence-focussed, especially in the very early days, can suck the joy out of parenthood. I've always breastfed into toddlerhood, co-slept, cuddled etc. I've really enjoyed it, it's ensured we're all well-rested and I feel I know my children incredibly well (and they know me). I know it's just a phase and am confident to trust my instincts. DH is my true partner in it all and we still have plenty of time to ourselves.

However, there are some things I'm more laid back about - I'm not evangelical about food and am happy to let the DC sort their own squabbles. There are some things they get no choice in but obviously I love them and choose holidays with them as well as us in mind. I wouldn't waste £5 taking a 2 year old to soft play just to follow them round. DC seem fairly resilient - eldest is only 7 though.

I also think the value of "quantity time" is overlooked in preference of "quality time" and "making memories". It's ok to just be bored together, and to piss each other off occasionally.

Lots of interesting replies here. Agree very much that it's hard to get the balance right between over parenting and not taking enough interest; and that there is a LOT of scrunity and judgement about parenting now.

If you raised your kids in the 90s or earlier, what did you feel the expectations were on you as a parent? Was it just to feed and house?

I suppose another way I could have framed my OP would be if old-fashioned parenting was neglectful, why has changing our approach not resulted in lower amounts of MH issues

@SweetheartNeckline we sound very similar in our approaches.

I agree it's good to have quantity time over quality time. I think some of us latchkey kids of the previous generation didn't get either (yes that sounds "woe is me", sorry!).

No, but I do think your post represents the strange, parent-blaming culture we currently live in. You especially see it when a child suffers a terrible, tragic accident, or is attacked by a stranger. The parents are almost blamed more than the assailant. I was a child in the 80s, and it was an awful time. Many children were scared of their parents, schools could get away with physically assaulting children, and children had little or no choice in anything. I don't actually believe that we are seeing more mental health issues in young people, more that they feel more able to talk about them, so that they get more reported. I think the scale of mental health issues is more a reflection of problems within our society, than with parents being more 'hands-on' with their kids.