What are your secret dating red flags?

[extrastrongnosugar]

Thinking about what I would tell my daughters how to test if a guy is marriage material.

Not obvious stuff, because a guy trying to get with you obvs won't tell you all women are sluts and belong in the kitchen or something but more subtle cues...

So far I got these 3 tests:

1. How does he talk about women he doesn't like?

1. How does he talk about women that don't try to be sexy?

1. Does female bodyhair disgust him?

What else should a young girl check?

Thanks!

I have to disagree that how they speak to waitresses is any indication of any misogyny or selfish that is to come.

My xh was controlling and financially abusive and he was a gaslighter as well. But he was always nice to waitresses. They weren't any threat to his home life or the division of labour or assets and they were paid to serve him and be polite and helpful so he was comfortable being served iykwim.

The first indication came really when I wanted him to consider my badly paid job important, ie not coerce me in to giving it up to mind the baby.

very true @dieu

How he talks about/treats his mother
Ditto his sisters
Very important: what he thinks of women at work, especially those in authority above him
How he treats your DD when she is ill
How he treats her when she is successful or has a very important work event coming up
How he treats shop staff and waiters

Being able to tell the difference between a Primrose and a Cowslip or a Crab Apple and a Cherry also helps

That's your personal preference.

Knowing nothing about horticulture is not a red flag.

Red flags for me are:

• Not making an effort
• Not offering to pay
• expecting me to decide where to go, when to leave and what to do next (unless you want a manchild to take care of)
• Unemployed or in financial trouble

I also always let the guy choose where to go for the first date, as this gives me an idea of the sort of places/prices he used to. Obviously if the place puts me in a dangerous position I just decline and move on.

*That's your personal preference.

Knowing nothing about horticulture is not a red flag.*

True, but having no knowledge, interest or liking/respect for nature is for me, as it means, together with the other aspects, they are fundamentally disinterested, if not aggressively dismissive and contemptuous of what I find important. Which is a big, red flag.

I shall reiterate...

Considering what they're like when they're angry is important - is it compatible with your approach to stress?

How are they when you're ill? i.e do they actually care about you.

I'm committed to not generating waste products or contributing to the destruction of the planet, but I can't name the flowers, plants or insects! I think it'd be a huge leap to think that somebody who isn't interested in plants can't love the earth and value the environment and make sacrifices to protect it.

How does he act when you are ill? Does he actually care for you, clean up vomit if you’ve got food poisoning, then run around a foreign city to find you medication?

How does he treat animals? Mine fusses more over our cats than I do, and I’m an extreme fusser. He will mix up honey and water for a sickly bumblebee, then monitor it for hours.

Does he value your opinion, ask your advice, then take it seriously?

Is he kind?

My wise Granny once told me "you can tell a lot about a man by how he treats his mother". Has turned out to be very true in my experience - for good and bad!

If he reacts badly to his gf working at the weekend. Or going to night school.

How he reacts when discovering his gf earned more than him last year.
In fact, generally the need to compete in a relationship.

To me the red flags are:

• constantly telling you you are over reacting and shouldn't feel the way you do - dismissing your emotions
• not contributing equally to all household chores (inside and out) and costs
• doing you a "favour" by looking after the kids (if you're living together with kids)
• polite to you but rude to people they see as less eg waiters, checkout people
• stingy with money, counting every penny (within reason of course, but financially controlling people aren't nice to live with), giving you an allowance
• if eg you take your car to the mechanic, they take over the conversation instead of letting you organise things for your own car
• they don't let you have time with your friends / hobbies - usually on the pretence they love you so much
• as above, they try to isolate you from friends and family, always wanting to do something with just the two of you. Normally accompanied by relocation to somewhere you have no friends / family.
• over effusive declarations of love, love bombing
• constant messaging to know where you are
• how they treat their mother and female relatives
• not living at home in their late 20s+ without a decent reason
• mother doesn't do everything for them - that will fall to you if they move in

Good indicators

• polite,
• treat you with respect
• talk respectfully to everyone they talk to
• encourage you to have your own life away from them
• gainfully employed - i don't care what they do, as long as they work or are studying for a career
• generous within reason and means

It starts with -

• being solid in who you are and what you like
• being financially self sufficient
• knowing what makes you happy and what your values are

Red flags

• general incompatibility which you gloss over because you want it to work
• how he is when he's angry
• whether he takes responsibility for his own bad moods and emotions
• whether he lies in any form, to anyone
• whether he is unpleasant , rude , difficult , argumentative, aggressive towards you or in front of you early on

How he treats his mother
If he is tight with money (as opposed to skint, different things)

@aldiprosecco that's so well spotted. on average most of us will earn less than the husband so if that makes our jobs "less important" he could just say he prefers women in the kitchen from the start and be done with it

@seniorschoolmum wow, hadn't though of that one! true though: shows that he thinks your freetime belongs to him, or that being available for him and entertaining him (with sex on tap)is your "job"

Agree with what you have all mentioned. I would add this:

Does he continue to do something seemingly innocuous but which you find physically uncomfortable and that he continues to do it even after you ask him to stop. For example, tickling, pinching.

This happened to me in a relationship (as well as love bombing etc). I wish I had recognised it as a precursor to other physical abuse.

I would add as well, questioning you about the same things to try to catch you out with a lie (there isn’t one!)

Does he add "for you" at the end of sentences; "I've hoovered for you" "I've walked the dog for you", "I'll watch the children for you"? If he does, he's an arsehole. Particularly when they're his dog/house/child.

Does he laugh at women's jokes? One guy I dated years ago went with me to watch a female comedienne and despite her being genuinely funny, astute and intelligent, he came out and declared that women just aren't as funny as men. I don't think anyone's ever surprised me so much in my life; it was such a dick thing to say.

How he treats you when you are ill.

So many women seem to forgive outrageously unkind behaviour from their partner/spouse when they are poorly, or need help, which is very short sighted indeed, as we are all going to need help and loving care from our closest family at some point in our lives, either through ill health, childbirth or just growing old together.

Do you really want the person in charge of life and death decision over you to be some vile man-child who strips about inconvenience to himself as you lie terribly ill? And no, they don’t suddenly turn into a nice person when the shit hits the fan, they carry on being exactly who they always are.

And how he treats your best friends is a massive red flag.

I think this is more indicative than mothers or waitresses actually in many ways.

Does he respect your bond with them and try and make a good impression as it’s important to you that the people you love see the good in each other? Does he support you seeing your best friend/S, even if he doesn’t have that much in common with them, because he understands how important that friendship is to you? Or does he deliberately set about undermining these close relationships, making you choose between him and them, causing you hurt, upset, and finally social isolation.

Another indicator is (drum roll!): Who cleans the toilet?!

How much housework does he do, shared between either you if you’ve moved in already, or with housemates before that stage. What chores does he do? Does he do the ‘fun’ / less gross or hard work tasks and leave you with the (literally)? Does he count cooking as his share of the housework, leaving you to clean uphis efforts afterwards, like the lower status skivvy you’ll become?

And finally, does he shoulder his own ‘mental load’?

Who is ‘in charge’ of remembering things/ organising things/ making lists and the general mental load of daily life? Is he capable of doing this on his own or has he swing from one woman to the next in his life, lazily relying on them to organise him and supply him with his daily functioning? Or are you somehow sliding I tothis role eventhlugh you’re not quite sure how it’s happening? Even if you don’t mind early on, when you are a young childless couple, believe me it becomes onerous and draining later on.

@Vicky1990 I don't do DIY but I can afford to pay someone. I actually find your quotes sexist. "Is she obsessed by make up and clothes", what if like myself she is a high earner due to these interests. I paid off my first mortgage at 27 and Own several other properties but my main work is the beauty industry. It's bad enough men having these stupid ideas and getting jealous without their mothers encouraging that mindset!

PS I tried to ignore the ridiculous comment about ‘are they a feminist or do they want equality’, and failed as it irritated me so much. Obviously, they are one and the same, although misogynists like to pretend differently, to further their own agenda and ensure that women don’t ever actually experience this wonderful equality thing.

Not just for dating but general rules for relationships with other people; personal or professional.

Does he/she talk negatively about people more than they talk positively about people. And to be honest, less than a 2:1 ratio of pos to neg would be a flag for me about anyone.

How do they treat waiters and people in service industries like retail etc. For me it speaks volumes about how that person views people as being 'beneath them' and how they feel it is ok to treat them.

Do they genuinely listen to what you're saying or are they simply waiting for their opportunity to talk.

Do they respect that someone can hold a differing viewpoint without being wrong, eg political, religious, moral beliefs.

How they treat animals, especially ones they don't like. Such as you might not like cats but you don't have to be aggressive or cruel towards them.

And on that point, are they aggressive/negative/confrontational/etc when it is not necessary and a neutral or no action would suffice. The old 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all' rule.

Oh, and do they take responsibility for their own mistakes and actions. If everything is due to something else causing them to do something. If every apology is "I'm sorry. But..."

@punta ooooh that does ring a bell. Cheekily grabbing your boobs or vagina because they are 'his' not cute but nasty nasty nasty

@fudge yep, and of course he expects favours in return.
He 'spoils you' with a sleep in, then comes in in the morning waiting for his sex