Anyone leaving Labour party with Chuka and his mates?

[longwayoff]

I am seriously worried. Politics across the West is an utter mess - thanks Putin, nice work - and I can't see that this will help. It will split the left vote and right-wing ideology will continue stomping its way to more power. We are asterisked all ways from hell to breakfast.

@mcharlie Not low at all. Perfect valid.

I'm politically homeless. I have, obviously, read about these Labour and Tory politicians coming together. I can't seem to find what policies they are standing for. Brexit or no Brexit to start with. Anyone?

Being an MP is a risk. You stand up and state your views and some people don't like it.

It's very, very easy to say all politicians are in it for the money from the safety of your keyboard. They stand up and take the knocks. If you think it's so easy and so well rewarded you do it.

pretty low
It isn't low, I referenced it in my response as well.

Anyone who thinks MPs have an easy life should research the number of death threats they receive.

Wasn't there once an poster on a thread who said she was an MPs wife and threats were constantly made including to their children

Nearly all MPs are politically ambitious for themselves, though. Very, very few are genuinely in it only for the betterment of society. And every party’s machine is single-minded and ruthless (esp. the LibDems, funnily enough).

I don’t blame them for that - after all their job is power, and they need to campaign and to persuade - but I do think it’s reasonable to take a suspicious view of any policy or action of any MP or any party.

Having said that, five MPs have been murdered since 1979. And quite a few more have come close to being murdered (Brighton bombing) so we should always acknowledge the risks of political service.

Yes I think it's perfectly valid to mention Jo Cox in defense of politicians. She seems to have been a decent woman who fought for the causes she believed in and died whilst doing that. I liked what I know of her and there are others like her.

Actually my previous Labour MP worked very hard for her constituency I had to contact her on behalf of a tiny local organisation and she was incredibly helpful. One of the reasons for her retiring from politics were the threats she received for her remain stance in the referendum.

@mrcharlie

Pretty low that.. I don't think its right that you try to use that tragedy to strengthen your views. That's pretty shocking and says a lot about you TBH

Not using it to strengthen my views at all. I'm using it to challenge your lazy, unpleasant smear on all MPs as being entirely lacking in any principles. Jo Cox was admired from both sides of the house as a person of principle but there are others who have good qualities too. Try to be less of a complaining cliche and actually judge MPs on specific actions.

@BartonHollow I didn’t see that thread but what you say rings true. A friend and former colleague of mine is a current MP, another is a former MP, both are/were female ministers, and by all accounts the death/rape (etc) threats are numerous and lurid. The one who left politics just couldn’t reconcile the job with keeping her famly safe.

Nearly all MPs are politically ambitious for themselves, though

Is being an MP the only job where personal ambition is frowned upon? If you were a lawyer, teacher or engineer wanting to do well for yourself would be a a good thing.

Lark

I can't remember the thread or I'd point to it but it was a general thread about being in the public eye and she just popped up with her experience and people were quite horrified

Is being an MP the only job where personal ambition is frowned upon? If you were a lawyer, teacher or engineer wanting to do well for yourself would be a a good thing.

But outside political careers no-one is seeking votes and trying to make laws we’re all subject to. Politicians appeal to us for our support and present us with - often - misleading impressions of themselves and their aims.

Please don’t understand what I’m saying to mean that we should reject the process of politics, far from it. But it’s better IMO to reserve some wariness about all party political positions and choices.Otherwise I think people become just party cheerleaders.

@Butterymuffin

Before Jo Cox was murdered I had never heard of her, as I'm sure many others hadn't either. I cannot give a view on Jo Cox as I never read about her and given that she was murdered I wouldn't wish to either.
But, this isn't about Jo Cox, this is about the level of deceit and fraudulent crimes that we read and hear about almost daily. No sane normal person would kill simply because they didn't like what they heard or read. But there is no denying the reputation of politicians lies in tatters these days. half the time they appear to be arguing just for the sake of it, with no actual views of their own that could be realistically implemented. Again you need only watch question time to see and hear them waffle on, yet never give a straight answer.
The public are sick to death of it.

Very, very few are genuinely in it only for the betterment of society

On balance I agree, but would qualify it a bit by saying some start off with good intentions, then chuck their integrity overboard when they find that's the price of party advancement

I've known a few like this, and it's been awful to watch reasonably normal people allowing themselves to be hollowed out

Windows I think you see it in vocational professions like nursing (though few people would begrudge nurses more money, they are supposed not to want money as much as they want to help people) and religious careers. Of course there is egotism in most professions and there's probably more than most in MPs. However it still remains true that there are far easier ways, especially if you have the right background, to attain both money and power, and they'll involve far less personal hassle and fewer death threats.

That’s fair, Puzzled. I should have qualified what I said by admitting the corrupting (in a political sense) effect of party politics and reliance on donors’ money and sponsors’ support.

We get the politicians we deserve.

We believe the lies (big bus) the public vote for promises of extra money with no tax rises. No one educates themselves of struggles with the facts.

How many nonsense posts do we get about democracy and the EU? They regularly demonstrate a total lack of understanding of the basics of the U.K. political system.

We expect politicians to hold themselves to a higher standard than most of us could achieve while they are criticised, threatened and even killed.

We believe the lies (big bus) the public vote for promises of extra money with no tax rises. No one educates themselves of struggles with the facts.

Isn’t that an argument for the electorate being more rather than less cynical about pols and their promises and ‘visions’?

We definitely need to critically evaluate what politicians say and do. Maybe (to be nit picking) we need to be sceptical rather than cynical. Cynical is the mrcharlie approach.

It is al very well saying that politicians don't give straight answers but when they do it doesn't end well. Remember when TM talked about how to cover social care costs, that went so badly the issue just got kicked into the long grass again. Any effort at explaining the real cost of Brexit, that's project fear. The public doesn't seem to have any tolerance for atually listening to straight answers so it isn't surprising that politicians are so reluctant to give them.

Yes, ‘sceptical’ is better. Thank you.

So the main parties have to abide by the democratic vote

No they do not.... DC lied when he said he would abide by the result, he knew he could not deliver it, so resigned, the promises he made are now null and void.

So, a democratically elected Govt should act in the national interest not on what the electorate say in a referendum or an opinion poll, the UK is governed under a representative democracy.
Unfortunately, May is not acting in the national interest and is acting only to try an keep her party in one piece.

The referendum was an act of gross incompetence and May should have just told us that in 2016.
Leaving the EU is not possible inside a handful of years, let alone with a hung Parliament as well.

If we believe something that is clearly and evidently nonsense we must take some of the blame.

If we are promised everything for nothing surely the public must take some responsibility for believing what clearly can not be delivered. The public will not make and face hard choices, they won't vote for politicians who tell the truth and say things will be difficult.

What politician will tell the unvarnished truth if people won't vote for them when they hear it? If you want power you have to spin and gloss because that is what people vote for.

The public is as much to blame as the political but it is easier to blame them rather than get a book and start reading and doing some research.