Anyone leaving Labour party with Chuka and his mates?

[longwayoff]

I am seriously worried. Politics across the West is an utter mess - thanks Putin, nice work - and I can't see that this will help. It will split the left vote and right-wing ideology will continue stomping its way to more power. We are asterisked all ways from hell to breakfast.

I listened to that David Rich talk about antisemitism in the labour party today. It was incredibly interesting and illuminating. Challenged some of my own thinking that I perhaps didn't realise was so engrained.

They do want to remain in the EU.

But they want independence more.

@SileneOliveira i see on twitter that Sturgeon is currently in France saying Scotland is being ignored in Westminster - on a day when SNP support for the independent group could mean that they are part of a centrist pivot group IN westminster...hopefully one of the SNP Westminster MPs is picking up the phone...

I agree that they're fundamentally nationalist and separatist of course. You'd hope they might overlook that!

i reckon it'll play badly for the SNP if they don't back the anti-brexit group, Sturgeon isn't one to miss a populist opportunity like this.

Nicola Sturgeon also has the impending shit-storm which is the Alex Salmond trial to deal with.

It wouldn't play well with her core support if she was encouraging Angus Robertson and the rest to build bridges with "Westmonster" MPs.

Shatner's, you are right as always. Fingers crossed.

I was sorry to see david lammy wasnt one of the 7

Lammy will be along in a minute. I wonder if they’re orchestrating this so a few at a time leave from either side to keep the news flowing and the momentum (no pun intended) going.

could be bad news for the SNP either way, back the group, save us from brexit, weakens the case for independence as SNP/Scotland has then been 'heard' in westminster, don't back it, it becomes very clear that the SNP wants independence at any price and EU membership is second order, despite their recent protestations. Interesting to see what NS has to say later.

Tom Watson keeps making statements that are basically saying I hate the current leadership. I wonder if he will be next. His tone is a bit similar to chukas in the weeks before he jumped ship.

Staggering it also serves to put party leadership nerves on edge. A nice dose of unease and paranoia will do them all the world of good.

I'd love see Yvette Cooper and Tom Watson join. I think I'm dreaming too much though,

I'd glad I managed to sign up yesterday as their site seems to have crashed again.

I don’t think Lammy will jump ship though it would be great if he did. While he has always been outspoken against Brexit, his core values are IMO very Labour, and the Independent Group (whose formation I am very happy about) has no policies on anything apart from Brexit as far as I can see?

Maybe it doesn’t matter because it may get us out of the horrible impasse we are in, but what about afterwards - when we still need to look after the issues that have been ignored by the government for so long?

Doesn't this also make the lib Dems completely pointless and even more irrelevant?

@Silene They may well want independence more. Doesn't mean they will get it. But not to align themselves with a force that is pushing to cancel Brexit won't play well across Scotland as a whole. It may be a better means to and end than to ignore it. Interesting PMQs today with comments such as this:

"How many resignations will it take Prime Minister, to stop this madness? If you don’t act Prime Minister... Scotland will"

from a Scottish MP...

@NotAnotherJaffaCake Medium- to long-term quite possibly but remember at the moment the IG is not a party, merely a group of independent MPs. It depends where they see the movement going. In the short-term, the LDs and their pro-Brexit stance could be very very important if the groundswell continues to grow.

I don't think Tom Watson IS out of the question actually - his own statement indicates he's politically homeless EVEN as the Deputy Leader

I can see the Eagle sisters jumping ship also

And Chris Bryant

i really hope they do. I can't see why the lib dems are irrelevant? The more MPs we have that formally signal they are centrist MPs the better, and if we had an independent group aligned candidate in every seat in a general election then life could begin to change.

All I can see Corbyn being able to do to stop this now is coming out for a second brexit referendum.

Someone on Twitter said Theresa May will call a general election as the polls still have the Tories comfortably ahead. But there isn't time to get one in ahead of 29th March and we also know she said she wouldn't lead them into a next election, so they'd need to have a leadership contest before a general election.

That would lead to more in-fighting in the Tory ranks.

Would surely have to result in an extension to Article 50 deadline regardless? Which the EU would be foolish to deny as they can see what may be happening here.

You may end up with Tories lead by Rees-Mogg and become the No Deal Party, which would see many Tories jumping ship. You may end up with Corbyn leading a Labour party sticking with Brexit but wanting to renegotiate. Then an Alliance all campaigning to remain in the EU. Even a lot of those who want a soft Brexit won't want Corbyn or (as business keep saying) don't want the uncertainty to continue. Which way would they turn?

We could have a GE and have a hung parliament. Nothing would get through. Fuck me, fascinating but may lead to continuing shit storm unless this movement really moves and moves quickly.

I don't like alliances. It means that small parties - or even a one-seat party - with one-note agendas or majority unpopular views get a say - when they should not. Not many people are keen on the DUP; the same with the Greens. They have a very dubious line on a certain subject... (see MN feminist board).

@Irma Are you saying that even if people vote for a small party, that party shouldn't get a SAY? You're saying you don't agree with basic democracy!

I really want this to work out. Am watching carefully and may well join the membership when and if they become a party

Surely WEP should consider throwing their lot in with TIG. At least they would have the possibility of shaping policies.

No, I'm not exactly saying that, but if a party gets one seat then their views are clearly not held by the majority of the population. What if UKIP had gained a seat (which they possibly might have done at one point) and parties were courting them?

Watching Borgen, if that's the double-dealing that has to go on behind the scenes when you get multiple parties with no majority, then "basic democracy" is out of the window.

We always needed a cross party group on Brexit and we need a cross party group to oppose it. I can’t see any one party ever resolving this mess, that’s why we need something really different due to this stinker of a referendum.

@Irma I can't argue with stupid.