Anyone leaving Labour party with Chuka and his mates?

[longwayoff]

I am seriously worried. Politics across the West is an utter mess - thanks Putin, nice work - and I can't see that this will help. It will split the left vote and right-wing ideology will continue stomping its way to more power. We are asterisked all ways from hell to breakfast.

It’s the traditional party groups that have held back the unification of the anti brexiteers. The brexiteers are split in many ways whereas the anti Brexit group have clarity of wanting the pre Brexit status quo. Remainers have not been well served by party loyalty.

I do think we need a change of our current system, though I'm not sure if this will trigger anything at this point. Very strange times, that's for sure. I just hope both main parties would start to move towards centre a bit more. But the current political mood doesn't seem to allow for it.

Tom Watson can’t quit, Corbyn hates that he’s deputy leader but can’t do anything about it as Watson was voted in by the membership just as Corbyn was.

How are the defecting stories going to affect the slim majority in parliament and how will they affect the Tories and the outcome of Brexit?

Yes, emoji, if TM is off to Brussels today to buy chocolate, no, sorry, negotiate her wretched deal then returns waving the paper as agreed, doesn't that require a vote in parliament? Which she cant win?

The thing is, people would vote for Chuka. I think if he'd been elected labour leader they might have won the last GE.

I would have preferred Yvette Cooper as labour leader myself, but I do like Chuka.

I have a lot of time for Yvette Cooper and Tom Watson but I think David Lammy is utterly useless.

Current state of play is as follows:

Conservative 314
Labour 247
Scottish National Party 35
Independent 19 (not just IG who have 11)
Liberal Democrat 11
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
Vacant 1
Total number of seats 650

The defections mean that the Tories and DUP now total 324 whereas they were 327 which gave them that tiny tiny majority. So they now have NO majority at all. So they are on a very, very slippery slope if any more Tories defect (and I would be surprised if Nick Boles doesn't go) - just one more means the DUP confidence and supply motion means jack shit if all other MPs vote against Govt, they can't get something through.

Now, those who defected this morning have said they will still vote with the Govt on policies they DO agree with so SOME policies would still get through.

We really need a new Blair. I'm always slightly agog when people say Blairite as a swear word - Blair-Brown, that team that got into power and massively increased public sector funding and benefits. B**tards.

i see Sturgeon is not being drawn on twitter and is merely attacking the main parties for falling apart and not leading on brexit (but wait, isn't this a chance for the SNP to lead on Brexit?!?), so the SNP are taking no position on IG so far except to attack as usual. Let's hope the pressure on them mounts.

I suspect Chuka as a bit of a smooth charlatan, who is a bit soulless.

But it's a poverty of choice. Tom Watson is a preference over most others. Cooper also.

We live in a centrist country, usually, but the ugliness of the Anglo Saxon mentality that's usually latent has been disturbed.

There's no point having some allegedly highly principled socialist as party leader when no one will vote for him.

Politicians need charisma. I'm sorry that's the state of the world, but it's true.

What annoys me more than anything else is that these days those who seem hellbent on hardcore socialism are young and immensely privileged studenty types. The left is supposed to be open minded and tolerant. It has become less and less so. I'm 29 and I'm completely disillusioned with it.

that team that got into power and massively increased public sector funding and benefits

Unfortunately Blair's legacy is and always will be the Iraq war.

shatnersWig
You should not count Sinn Fein as they have never and will never take their seats
And Lady Sylvia Hermon will never vote with Labour while Corbyn is in charge.

He wants to be the next Blair, a Tory-lite social democrat PM

I reckon a lot of people would vote for this. There are plenty of folk out there keen on sensible middle ground politics. Also lots of people are thoroughly sick of Labour and the Tories. If they called themselves the Let's Stop all the Nonsense Party it could work.

only because people have partial memories saxatablesalt, they've forgotten the pre Iraq days and how bad things were. Anyway, let's not re-do all that.

One of my main issues with JC is that the tuition fee debacle did NOTHING for the 50 % of kids that aren't going to university - not very socialist to spend huge amounts of money on the better off half of the young population. The IFS have been doing something about this recently - funding for non-degree routes has been destroyed but yeah, let's have free tuition #votewinner

I long for the sensible middle ground. I am sick to the stomach of the politics of outrage.

I'm not sure the SNP will ally with them. On Brexit, the majority of Scotland voted to leave so the SNP have quite a strong mandate on Brexit.
4 of the Ind Grp constituencies were Remain. The SNP doesn't need to be seen as a party that supports ignoring constituents' wishes.

I would put good money on the majority of people not giving two hoots about the Iraq war. It is a non issue these days in the face of Brexit and austerity.

I do think Corbyn is now unelectable but because of the sterling job the msm have done on him rather than anything specific he has/hasn't done.

So it's all fake news, as Donald Trump claims in the US? Clearly MSM have a role to play as does social media, including the Momentum twitterati. But is it true or not that JC voted against his party more than any other? That he failed to deal with misogyny and anti-Semitism in his own party? That he's not even led the party properly in tackling those elements or even making hay for Labour over the long running Tory debacle over the EU? that he never fronts up to any serious political interviewer any more (like Trump). That there is no clear idea where he'd take the party? That no one in the country outside a few key Labour constituencies have ever heard him speak about important issues?

I left the Labour Party when Gordon Brown embraced PFI to keep expenditure off the books - leaving the NHS and schools paying for nothing. I rejoined but am leaving again.

As for those who think their MPs should represent their party policy hook line and sinker, think again. None of the parties (apart from UKIP etc which have one selling point only) have ever had every MP agreeing with all their policies.

Interesting R4 WATO with Tory leavers just now and commentators. Yes of course they probably have jobs to go back to if they get deselected (not so prevalent in the Tory as the Labour party) since one hopes MPs are intelligent and have had some experience that will help them get a job afterwards. Also vox pops with Tory voters split between continuing to support their individual MP and being disgusted they weren't supporting their party thick or thin.

For all the FPTP antagonists, I know where you're coming from. But I do fear that you'll end up landed with MPs who don't know anything about the area they're representing.

Quite impressed with what the 3 who have left today are saying.

@Talkin You have to include them in terms of "covering" a seat even if they don't sit in them and whether a party has a majority or not is always based on the 650 figure, not 643.

@KateAdie On Brexit, the majority of Scotland voted to leave Bollocks did they. In Scotland the result was 62% remain!

I would put good money on the majority of people not giving two hoots about the Iraq war.

I grew up in a very asian area of East London and consequently have a lot of muslim friends. Blair is still universally hated amongst them for the Iraq war. Most of them believe that's the reason we have terrorists.

That's not necesarily what I think, but that is what they think.

Anyway - sorry for derailing. I agree, we are missing a middle ground in politics.

I cannot get worked up over the tuition fees thing. I am 27k in debt from my student days. I pay it off at the rate of £56 a month, which comes straight out of my PAYE, it didn't count towards my credit rating or mortgage etc, and it gets written off after 25 years. It's hardly a back breaking life changing thing.

Not a popular opinion that, but it's mine.