Anyone leaving Labour party with Chuka and his mates?

[longwayoff]

I am seriously worried. Politics across the West is an utter mess - thanks Putin, nice work - and I can't see that this will help. It will split the left vote and right-wing ideology will continue stomping its way to more power. We are asterisked all ways from hell to breakfast.

@HelenaDove did you ever read the thread I put up when my HA's contractors cut off my mains water supply for over 48 hours - bearing in mind I have disabled children with continence issues?
My God you would think I was routinely robbing these people's homes the way I was spoken to "we pay for you, suck it up" and the like.

People think this is ok. People think a disabled child being told he can't have meds as Virgin Care aren't the NHS is ok. People think families like mine losing hundreds a year is ok. People think the rise in food banks is ok. People think zero hour contracts are ok. People think losing human rights legislation is ok.

They must do otherwise they'd be joining together to actually effect change rather than just making snitty remarks and fragmenting the alternative vote so much.

My mum is Italian and while shopping in Tesco just after the referendum got asked why she didnt stay in her own country and told she should go back there.

It rings a bell Bishop yes. I think i posted on it.

That's because everything was inching further and further left, so the pendulum was bound to swing back at some point.

That's partly true, but the purity purges where welcomed when Corbyn was elected leader, people can't complain now.

The anti Irish sentiment is ramping up too, as predicted.

“Most people are centrist I think and keep their opinions to themselves but it's the gobshites at either end of the spectrum that always polarise things.“

There isn’t an ‘either end’ of the spectrum. It goes full circle until the ultra far left and ultra far right eventually blur into each other.

I’ll allow you the “gobshites”, though

The anti Irish sentiment is ramping up too, as predicted

If only there wasn't a life long Eurosceptic as leader of the opposition who has surrounded himself with questionable people we might have got something out of the last few years

And I’ll vote for them if they can uphold women’s sex based rights and oppose Brexit.

That is literally all I am asking for and it seems too much for the other parties.

This is exactly what I want.

I live in an area that voted bloody ukip.
Labour don't even field a candidate in local elections.
I just want a Labour that people here would consider. CU is a self seeking man and none of the leavers appeal to the otherwise ukip voting twats here.
On the other hand, I do think that Corbyn has something. I've had conversations with people locally who say things like "At least he sticks to things." My community is low paid rural workers. If they are ever, ever going to vote labour then they need an old Labour, working class labour party and not the one we have now. Socialists get more votes here than Labour.
I just want change. I teach, and i've seen such a huge rise in poverty these past five years. So many families struggling. There has to be some real effort made to discover why we are still such a safe Tory seat and why Labour don't appeal when they should be core Labour voters: underpaid, working class and taken advantage of.
Our local MP is the Brexit lead ffs.

Corbyn's Labour party is disgustingly anti-Semitic.

But even if it confined itself to "legitimate criticism of Israel", why would anyone want to vote for a party with such a one-eyed, student union foreign policy?

Brexit isn't ideology.

Its become a religion.

Cult.

And I’ll vote for them if they can uphold women’s sex based rights and oppose Brexit.

That is literally all I am asking for and it seems too much for the other parties.

This is exactly what I want.

Me too.

Well what a surprise!!!, some members have left the Labour Party.
Corbyn is a complete waste of time, shows very poor logic and leadership.
Examples, support of the IRA, the regime in Venezuela, saying he wouldn't defend our country with nuclear weapons if atacked with them, failed to condemn Russia for tha Salisbury poisoning, wanting to borrow billions of pounds for the next generation to pay back.

Can someone explain to me please how this new little party will be any different from the lib dems?

• Pro stopping Brexit
• Left wing but putatively less left wing than labour

?

For me it's everything slowly inching further and further right

Me too. That's why I despair that the Labour Party isn't currently forming a sensible, anti-austerity, soft Brexit/Remain government based on votes including moderate Labour supporters and Tory voters appalled at the right wing lurch of that party.

The fragmentation of the left has been caused by an extremist Labour Party. I desperately want the problems caused by austerity to end. But there's no way Corbin wins an election and forms a government, and it's not a split that makes that less likely. In 30-40 key marginal seats he needs to maintain all his 2015 votes and add to them. He's alienating people like me who reluctantly voted labour in 2015, and who is he adding? None who voted Tory or lib dem is going to have been won over, and I don't believe there's a mass of latent socialist voters that could be brought out by increasing turnout. There's zero evidence for that.

A split isn't going to stop him winning. It might, though, force the Labour and Tory parties back to remembering that centrist votes are to play for and stop pandering to the extremes of either party.

When I was involved in politics as an elected rep, I expected issues with the Tories, UKIP etc. imagine my surprise when any vitriol towards me was from within the Labour Party. I was harassed, I had petitions started to get me fired, I had threats etc. All for liking an anti Momentum tweet. The person who stirred up the majority of the threats is now a sitting councillor because they are a "Corbynista".

Anti Semitism is rife in the party. I've seen it, reported it and resigned because of it. I've honestly never understood those who worship Corbyn. I did try and get behind him because I believed in the party.

What I don't understand is the way that Corbyn supporters try to shut down any discussion that isn't vehemently supporting Corbyn. Their usual response is typically, telling you to leave the party, asking you if you want a Tory government, citing "JC4PM" in response to anything anti Corbyn or just randomly dropping it in. Calling you "Tory scum", "red Tory" etc. Claiming anything negative is "MSM" and "fake news".

I think my favourite is when they refer to Corbyn as "the elected leader". He is, of course, the leader but it just feels very cult like.

They can't see that they're as fanatical as Trump fans.

And I’ll vote for them if they can uphold women’s sex based rights and oppose Brexit.
That is literally all I am asking for and it seems too much for the other parties.
This is exactly what I want.

^^Yes.

And as for the comment that antisemitism is "over-hyped"...FFS attitudes like this are exactly the
reason why we're in the situation we've got today. The dogged refusal to even entertain the
possibility that people might have a point when they protest about their treatment.

It articulates everything I despise about the Momentum movement of today. A patronising
assumption that "the masses" need to be led by them because they know what's best, and
anyone who questions or protests is immediately ostracised, shunned and told they are a traitor.
But hey, it's fiiiine for them to bend the rules.

People like Seumas Milne are a prime example
of this - a supporter of the "achievements" of East Germany...y'know that wonderful state that
executed people who tried to escape and left them to
[[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/berlin-wall-shooting-peter-fechter-1962-archiv
e bleed to death]]. A man who sees no issue with espousing communist ideals but was happy
to send his own children to grammar schools.

A split isn't going to stop him winning. It might, though, force the Labour and Tory parties back to remembering that centrist votes are to play for and stop pandering to the extremes of either party.

No it's for centrists to accept that they are neo-liberal at least economically.

The problem is that, while Corbyn may stand for a dated 1970s-era vision of industrial socialism, the other Labour leadership contenders he beat for the top job stood for nothing. The field was comprised largely of warmed-over managerialists from the Blair era, whose idea of policy was to call in the focus groups and pollsters to determine what sells this week. One even said that the Labour Party “has the value of having strong values”.

The fact it's woke up the extreme left and he has surrounded himself with questionable people also doesn't help mind.

Well the Lib Dems completely sold out in the coalition which has rendered them entirely unelectable too.

The self-indulgent seven!

That is what they are. The country is already being shafted by the Tories (shite schools, NHS struggling, food banks etc) AND we're facing the clusterfuck that is Brexshit????

Self-indulgent toddlers.

Couldn't they at least have waited a few months?

Never were electable in the sense of being able to form a government.

Wait a few months for what? So as not to interrupt Labour's amazing Brexit strategy?

Tory voters will largely stay loyal to the Tories. UKIP or similar party will still have a presence stifled by FPTP. Nationalist parties will grow stronger due to Brexit.
That leaves all other voters split between Lab/Gang of 7/Green/Lib Dem.

I promise (to myself if no one else) that this will by my last post on the "split vote myth", as I've now made the point several times, but this is not what is keeping Labour - or the left wing generally - out of government. Because

• You can't assume all LD/green/group of 7 voters would otherwise vote labour.

• For a labour government you need either to win the votes of people who voted LD/ Tory last time, or people who didn't vote at all last time, in key marginals. None of the current evidence suggests that either is likely. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that a more moderate Labour Party, with a more effective leader, and not riddled with racism, would.

For a split to prevent a Corbyn win, he would have to have a chance of winning. He doesn't, and I haven't seen the shadow cabinet or the Labour Party or Corbyn supporters set out a strategy that convinces me otherwise. So suggesting that the group of 7 are going to wreck his chances by splitting the vote is just disingenuous.

I expect that one or two of the seven may retain their seats at the next General Election, and not many more MPs will leave.

For most people who have voted Labour in the past such as myself, the Labour Party left them long before today.

The Labour Party that has re-admitted Derek Hatton.

There is enough shit going on. Pointless bollocks like this is only going to weaken the left.

Whatever you think of JC, whatever you think of the current Labour Party they are the only force we have that will even TRY to protect anything that matters post Brexshit.

What do you think will happen? Tories will start selling what is left of the family silver- ie schools, hospitals.. then you have employment and human rights...