Anyone leaving Labour party with Chuka and his mates?

[longwayoff]

I am seriously worried. Politics across the West is an utter mess - thanks Putin, nice work - and I can't see that this will help. It will split the left vote and right-wing ideology will continue stomping its way to more power. We are asterisked all ways from hell to breakfast.

silver There is nothing individual about our political system.

Then there would be no problem in switching to PR. Everyone votes for the party they want and each party gets their proportion of MPs in from some sort of list.

As a former Labour voter, who is now politically homeless for a number of reasons, not least Labour's misogyny and anti-semitism, I would be thrilled to throw my weight behind it if it espouses the values I hope it will.
I rescinded my Labour party membership a couple of weeks ago it doesn't represent me any more.I'm looking at Lib Dem but I could be tempted by a new centre Left party.

M3lon party list systems are not ideal. They break the link with constituencies and the party machine becomes all powerful - much more so than now.

There are many more proportional systems than FPTP that are better than party lists.

Retaining the individuality of MPs is quite important.

except that nobody is voting for individuals...so why should it matter who the individuals are....

I just read that poster saying anti semitism reason was bad but not a reason not to vote labour except you didn’t read it, did you Donald? Because that’s on,y half what I said. What I said quite clearly was that anti-semitism is as bad in all the other parties too. This is horrible. It shouldn’t be the case. I feel as sick about it as you. But it isn’t a reason not to vote Labour specifically - it could conceivably be a reason not to vote at all.
Have a look at this www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/antisemitism-no-justification-for-singling-out-labour/

Brexit has made it quite quite clear that MPs have no interest in representing their constituents ideas or interests. I don't know how long we should keep bothering to pretend this is important.

except that nobody is voting for individuals. not true a lot of people vote for their MP because of who they are and how well they have represented their constituency in the past. Not everything goes down party lines.

Our MPs do have some individuality though as today's actions show. Some MPs do act on their own conscience and this is generally a good thing. Some MPs do follow what they believe.

A whole parliament totally dependent on party machines is really not healthy for democracy.

In all the new labour years I was politically homeless, too....
I felt there wasn't an actual opposition for years.

The stuff in the previous election's manifesto would make real change to my life as a disabled person and my family and a lot of my friends. All the coalition and Tories have done is take stuff away from us and make us struggle. My kids used to get regular medical checks and speech therapy, today we get nothing. Our income is shrinking in real terms but as people decided the lazy bastards on benefits must suffer then so must we.

Nobody seems to care. Nobody seems to give a stuff that we are going to lose the NHS, Brexit means I already have difficulty getting hold of my meds that keep my limited mobility going and that's going to get even harder.

All they care about is bloody personality politics, who has the shiniest suits and says their platitudes in a soundbite friendly way.

It's bloody terrifying.

I knew it. I fucking knew there would be arseholes popping up on this thread making excuses for the disgusting racism that exists within Corbyn's Labour Party.

What is it with you guys? Anti-semitism is RACISM.

Just because a lot of Jews are not brown-skinned does NOT make it ok. It's NOT ok if it's also an issue in other parties. It's NOT ok if turning a blind eye would help Corbyn.

It is not, and never will be, ok.

Anybody apologising or minimising it should check their own prejudice.

Corbyn and his cronies have had every opportunity, over a long time, to weed this out. He hasn't bothered. That tells its own tale.

Cardibach, I dont vote for the tories either, telling me that Labour are the same on this issue as the tories kills me. Is that where we are at, Labour are no worse than the conservatives. Dear god. My ambition for the Labour party was higher than that.

I hear all the snide comments about the way JC dresses and presents himself and think to myself "these people are happy with the decimation of help for people like me, they're happy with zero hours contracts and the rich getting richer at the cost of everyone else because they want to slag off a leader who can be changed. They won't look at the policies, at the difference those policies will make for the worst off, it's all about who they think is naice"

And it makes me sick. And resentful. And bitter.

Bishop I entirely agree with you in your despair over the way disabled people have been treated since 2010. I do think Corbyn offered some real hope on this. However, he is completely unelectable in the real world, IMO. So he can promise all he likes, it ain't ever going to materialise. I would rather a more centrist/slightly left govt go a lot of the way there, than have a Tory one take everything away. Depressing though that conclusion might be. Sorry for your troubles.

I don't despise Corbyn for his clothes. And I certainly wish that people had a better champion.

BishopBrennansArse people still believe in those policies. Not believing in Corbyn isn't the same as thinking what is happening to you is OK. Its not about how he dresses its about his utter inability to lead a party. This could have been smoothed out months ago by a less inept leader and his lack of action on the shitshow that is Brexit is abysmal.

So agitate for a change of leader? Rather than consigning a party that will actually do something about it to the bin.

@gamerwidow net result the same, Tories get in, we suffer further
So yes anyone just saying they won't vote Labour are actively making sure the situation stays the same.

These seven could have done far more by staying within the party. But no, they fracture the Left vote even further, guaranteeing the Tories free reign to do as they like.

They want to get rid of ECHR now, just as I said they would post Brexit. But no, pisstaking about jam and anoraks takes precedence over anyone actually trying to make a difference.

I agree too @Bishop but I can’t and won’t vote for an anti Semitic, misogynist party run by a bunch of bullies any more than i’d vote for the Tories. Many, many people feel the same.

I have no interest in Corbyn's clothes, his utter lack of opposition to the greatest political crisis in the UK since WW2 does concern me however.
I don't suppose the central independents will do that well in the current political set up but I applaud them for trying.

A change of leader will not make any difference. That was the hope I hung into for a long time.That's why these mps are leaving. They know it's broken beyond repair.

So agitate for a change of leader? Rather than consigning a party that will actually do something about it to the bin.

Middle class remainers won't do that. After the failure of the Lib Dems in 2017 middle class remainers desperately needed a new party to champion. The 7 MP's supposedly gives them this. Austerity is an after thought - proven by the time dedicated to attacking the leader of the opposition over Brexit rather than holding the actual government to account on anything - brexit, austerity.

Don’t need any lectures from the likes of you thanks cardibach
I’ve followed this closely, not least via Jewish friends who used to be active within labour - but not now. Your reaction of “ but the tories are just as bad” makes you part of the problem.

These seven have done this for themselves, not through altruism.

“Jam and anoraks” god you people are unreal.

No, I just read the poxy mainstream media and threads on here.