Anyone leaving Labour party with Chuka and his mates?

[longwayoff]

I am seriously worried. Politics across the West is an utter mess - thanks Putin, nice work - and I can't see that this will help. It will split the left vote and right-wing ideology will continue stomping its way to more power. We are asterisked all ways from hell to breakfast.

Bowchica Or you see an electorate choosing the Government they believe will best lead the country - sometimes Tory, sometimes Labour, that's the nature of life and the only way a democracy can function. Insisting only one way of thinking is 'right' and only one party has the correct answers is no more democracy than it is reality.

So many seem content to wallow in ideology and insults rather than seeking to engage with, lead and inspire voters with someone who can be a Leader for the entire country rather than only for those who agree with them.

Comrade Corbyn

My eyes rolled so far back they fell out of my head

There’s something in that, but the difference between the cult of Toryism and the cult of Corbyn is that the Tories don’t have a vile army of bullies flooding local parties and spewing bile online.

I take it you dont go below the line commenters on news articles then, just because you havent seen it doesnt mean it doesnt exists and trust me the right wing bullies are a lot lot lot worse

If I was Corbyn, now would be the time to fully back the PV campaign it would essentially render the 7 useless.

And risk losing support in the Brexit-voting Labour heartlands? And alienating the Bennite left who have a completely different set of reasons for wanting to leave the EU?

It would be a bold strategy, but a risky one. It could play right into UKIP's hands.

What @Graphista said at 11 ish this morning

There’s something in that, but the difference between the cult of Toryism and the cult of Corbyn is that the Tories don’t have a vile army of bullies....spewing bile online.

Never read the comments on the DM or DE sites then?

It would be a bold strategy, but a risky one. It could play right into UKIP's hands.

Absolutely, it would all be on how the narrative was framed

I'm not going to vote for them but I'm glad they have split. At every point when the country has needed a strong opposition, they have threatened a split. They've been more effective at keeping the Tories in power than the Tories have.

I also think more, smaller parties with a PR system would be better for the country. FPTP has proven divisive and left people feeling disenfranchised. If this represents a shift towards a more representative style of politics then I'm hopeful.

But, only if this is the first split of many. If we're left with a choice of the tories, Corbyn's Labour or Chuka's independents (who aren't even independent enough to renounce their ticket and stand for re-election) then this is just another sign of how far our current politics are failing the majority.

Corbyn isn't going to back the people's vote - if he was even remotely tempted he'd have done it by now. I left the labour party sometime before the last election, this is the first good news there's been in ages for centre voters like me. Desperately hoping some staunch remainer tories break ranks now.

Left socially, center right economically

I'm not sure that works though. To achieve the social policies, a government needs the tax revenues from traditional redistributive taxation.

Was it Wilson who said he was going to "Squeeze the rich until the pips squeak"?

i can see the case for PR, but if we look at the last election, quite likely we'd have had an SNP-CorbynLab coalition and an independent Scotland. Or perhaps not, as you've an anti-brexit party and a party that is skewered on brexit so perhaps that coalition could never have happened on that basis. PR would be interesting but I'm not sure how different it would be, the party groups need reform, we do need a new centre party, lab, lib, tory, nationalist - it's not defined enough for the complexity of current politics.

Corbyn isn't going to back the people's vote - if he was even remotely tempted he'd have done it by now.

If 1st of March rolls around and he hasnt come out and said hes in favour of a PV then I pity him at next conference

But the electorate don't vote for the tories in overwhelming numbers.

The majority of the electorate vote for some form of social democratic policies our electoral system simply fails to reflect that.

Some form of PR would lead to a coalition of the centre left with some green and SNP influences. We would never have socialism but we wouldn't have the tories either.

I would rather compromise and have a Blair ish government than the tories slash and burn policies.

And risk losing support in the Brexit-voting Labour heartlands?

How many of those are regularly voters? and would Lab voters really vote Ukip/Brexit Party? esp if Lab passionately explained why the change of heart.

If Lab want to win a GE they have to appeal to areas outside of the post industrial regions and they will not do that on a pro brexit platform

Hopefully there will now be a party I can vote for without holding my nose. I can see a breakaway Tory party before long with all their threatened deselections. Or a new centre party with moderates from both sides. About bloody time too.

Good riddance to them. They should all do the honourable and resign so the electorate can decide if they want them or the Labour party as they originally voted for. Awful timing to pull this stunt and just gives one up to the Tories.

I'm sick of being fed crap about JC. He's been the target of continuous smear campaigns by various groups who are shitscared at the prospect of him in charge of the country.

Rooting out anti-semitism in an organisation of 500,000 people is a huge job, and it's important that it is done in a way which doesn't shut down legitimate criticism of Israel's treament of Palestine

If Labour supporters aren't happy with the way the party is going, whether in terms of policy or its leadership, they can join, and change it. It's never been easier

And this is why so many previous labour supporters are turning from the party. It is full of ideologues like the poster above who try to convince us of things like this which we can plainly see are not true.

I think it’s pretty pointless. No financial backers, no new party, no real concert support. I can’t see the point! They have just made themselves homeless politically.
If they were launching a new party with big donors then it may not be doomed to failure. It is just a few mps kicking against Brexit. It is not going to change anything unless 70 odd others follow ( which is doubtful)

The post war consensus and the 1950s tories - were centre /soft left.

Supporting the poor, no denationalisation but soft right economically.

We've done it before.

I'm sick of being fed crap about JC. He's been the target of continuous smear campaigns

They are not smears or shite but rather things he has actually said and done (or failed to do) himself, quite openly and publicly.

They should all do the honourable and resign so the electorate can decide if they want them or the Labour party as they originally voted for.

Like Jared O'Mara did?

Here's a novel thought.

Perhaps they know their careers are now fucked and they don't care. Perhaps they know they have little chance of being re-elected but they don't care.

Perhaps they are actually following their beliefs and can't stay in a party that they believe is acting in a way that will damage the country.

Isn't that what MPs are supposed to do?

Perhaps they are actually following their beliefs and can't stay in a party that they believe is acting in a way that will damage the country.

Then why not go for a by-election then?

Blair and the social democrats in the labour party won 3 elections - that's what will win against the Tories in this country. Socialism won't win ...There's no point berating the electorate for not seeing the light 're JC - unless something more moderate is presented to the uk electorate then the Tories will keep on winning

Completely agree

But the electorate don't vote for the tories in overwhelming numbers

And while some constituencies are very much a Labour or Tory stronghold going back decades and decades, there are some which swing quite often between the two or, in more recent times, between Lib and Tory. In some of those cases it's very clear a lot of people are voting for the person rather than the party, often because they are a genuine local rather than someone who has moved there to try and win the seat.