To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

I suspect that the girls did not fund their escape on their own. SB’s husband is at the very least 7 years older as he was born in 1992 and she was born 1999, he would have booked it in her sisters name.

SB DIDN’T take her passport, she took her older sister’s passport who was likely an adult or at least close to being an adult.

so she will have to pay to have the baby here is she comes home
Bet you she doesn't!
But if she's as close to full-term as it sounds, she probably won't make it back here for the actual birth. I presume it's healthcare for the baby afterwards she's after - bearing in mind what happened to her other children.

SB DIDN’T take her passport, she took her older sister’s passport who was likely an adult or at least close to being an adult.

So, if she's in the public eye, then even if she does still have that passport on her, it's not going to help her get anywhere if everyone knows it's not hers.

SB DIDN’T take her passport, she took her older sister’s passport who was likely an adult or at least close to being an adult.

So the parents still should ask themselves why their daughter could steal their other daughter's passport, always assuming it was in fact stolen and the sister and/or parents weren't in on it.

Where did the money for the plane tickets come from? Was that ever explained? Or did the parents realise that there's a limit to how far they can push the "oh noes, we knew nothing" narrative?

it sounds like she's in a refugee camp with those that have nothing to do with daesh other than trying to flee from them.

No, on Sky last night they showed the camp she's in, she and other ISIS people are kept in separate camp.

I tried to watch Press Preview last night, but got so irritated with Yasmin Alibhai-Brown that I had to switch off. She was on with Brendan O'Neill (Spiked Online) and every time he tried to say anything she'd insist on breaking in, she'd waffle on about victim of grooming, then he'd start to say something and she'd shout him down, she just kept shouting him down while claiming he wasn't letting her talk.

I get livid when men talk over women, but she's the opposite to a ridiculous extent, won't let anyone make a point. She's unwatchable.

The sister whose passport she used is only 2 years older than her, so probably didn't have an adult passport herself either.

In the saintly, not extremist, not dishonest at all, families these girls came from, they all had access not only to their passports but to enough money (and means of payment) to buy short-notice medium-haul international plane tickets. How convenient

I have to take issues with this. Our family passports are not locked away. My kids "have access" to them in that they know where they are. They also know that I keep my credit card in my wallet. I'd say that was fairly normal for most families.

However, we would most definitely spot if a 15 year old was booking flights without us.

However, we would most definitely spot if a 15 year old was booking flights without us.

How? If they have access to your credit card, it only take them a moment to get the details off it, and they can then buy anything. With their passport, they're off to the races.

Do people really not lock their passports, both their own and their children's, away? Lord.

However, we would most definitely spot if a 15 year old was booking flights without us.
Would you? How?
I would think that there are many families ("naice," "normal" families) where children are online (playing GTA or Fortnite or Snapchatting in the middle of the night) and the parents have no IDEA what they're up to. At a lot younger than 15, too.

So she got through passport control with someone else's passport. I am frequently stopped at passport control because my children have a different surname to me.

It is clear, hearing all these facts, that this was very well thought through and planned. She knew exactly what she was doing. All this 'she was only a child' is ridiculous. I think this country needs to have a conversation about what consitutes a child and and adult in different situations. Someone needs to take responsibility for things like this, if she was a child then her parents should be held accountable and put in prison if necessary. They aided her by letting her access to passports.

IS destroys recruit passports so it's unlikely the one she used is still in circulation. Originally it was said that if she came home, she wouldn't be prosecuted. I think she's banking on that, but 4 years down the line as an unrepentant adult, I really think she should be. Aqsa Mahmood has been stripped of her uk citizenship, I don't see why Shamima can't be, too. She's demonstrated adult belief in her ideals and there will probably be people who can attest to her actions.

In response to Pp asking about the 3 girls who left together, they are Shamima, Amira Abase (it's her father that's in pictures at anti western rallies) and Kadiza Sultana. They were following a friend, Sharmeena Begum. Kadiza died in a Russian air strike on her house after admitting that she didn't want to stay anyway, Shamima is in the aforementioned refugee camp and Amira and Sharmeena are thought to still be in the last remaining stronghold.

If she knew exactly what she was doing, then someone still helped her/them. If not her parents, by omission if nothing else, then someone else/another organisation.

I'm finding it hard to think of her pregnancy over all the people who were oppressed and killed by IS, all the Yazidi women who were raped and made to suffer unwanted pregnancies etc etc ....yeah just struggling to worry about what happens to her in that context

Indeed, OhDearGod.

This very day, on this very forum: a 13 year old spending two and a half grand over the course of some months without their parents' noticing.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/3506827-13-year-old-and-2500-gaming-charges

The people suggesting she should be allowed back in, if she had endorsed and committed the same crimes here in the UK as she has endorsed and committed in Syria, I wonder if they would still be as vocal about her right to be here.
Even if she goes straight to prison upon her return, it's well known that prisons are fertile grounds for radicalisation. Could it be that that's part of the plan? Her current "role" in ISIS is to groom others within the UK prison system and her unborn child is just a means to that end?

“The people suggesting she should be allowed back in, if she had endorsed and committed the same crimes here in the UK as she has endorsed and committed in Syria, I wonder if they would still be as vocal about her right to be here”

If she’s British, then yes.

Yes someone helped her, probably paid for her ticket etc. I still think that it is just as valid to think that she absolutely knew what she was doing vs she was brain washed. A 15 year old knows right from wrong, she choose to do this and isn't repenting (not that I care about that).

Interesting re the passport. In either case she either doesn't have one or has her sisters. In both cases she would not be able to return to the UK. However like others I believe she will be back within a week. I also suspect that she isn't as pregnant as she makes out and will have the baby here.

I believe Sajid has today said that he will do everything to stop her coming back, the passport thing is the answer to this. I would also like to bet that when it's announced she is back he will blame it on the justice system/the EU/human rights.

Our passports live in a drawer in my desk. My credit card lives in my wallet which lives in my bag. It would not be hard for my children to get hold of either if they were so minded, this is their home not a prison.

Meanwhile, elsewhere:

np.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/aqpvkv/ny_nyc_16_year_old_son_booked_a_first_class/

"Our 16 year old son booked a first class flight to London from NY around midnight, and actually took it early in the morning. This flight was $16,000 on our credit card. We obviously can't sue our minor son, but do we have any recourse to sue the airline?"

do we have any recourse to sue the airline?
Right, so massive parenting fail and they want Delta to pay for it!

My children don't live in a prison either but I keep the passports in the safe. I can't see the need for a 15 year old to have access to such an important document, it's easily lost. Even when they go on a school trip the teachers hold on to them.

As a parent then if you leave your passports and credit card out you are responsible and should face the consequences, that's all I am saying. Surely this is all just basic common sense and security!

Where did the money for the plane tickets come from? Was that ever explained? Or did the parents realise that there's a limit to how far they can push the "oh noes, we knew nothing" narrative?

I read that they stole family jewellery and sold it to pay for their escape.

So the parents left both passports and jewellery lying around, and noticed the disappearance of neither. How convenient.

Well I suppose you don’t check the passports or your wedding jewellery often do you?

So the parents left both passports and jewellery lying around, and noticed the disappearance of neither. How convenient

It would be days before I noticed the disappearance of either. Possibly weeks