To be feeling so hurt by my parents?

[OneThingOffTheList]

There's a backstory to this which is a lifetime long so I'll summarise as best I can.

My mum is a manipulative person and has always been emotionally abusive to me. I'm one of her 5 children and she has a bad relationship with all of us. You could say my dad is her enabler, but he is actually a lovely person who has made some questionable choices (such as standing by her) but I believe a lot of that is down to the abuse he's suffered from her over the years.

I could give you a long list of things she has done to me over the years which would shock you but I'll not go into all that right now as I don't want to drag this out.

Basically, things came to a head this summer. It was my sister's wedding weekend. I like in the south of England and I flew up alone with my 2 young children. When I arrived, my mum had set the bedrooms up differently to how she normally would. She had put the cot up in the room that my older DD was going to be sleeping in. My younger DD is a nightmare at sharing a room, every time we've tried, she's take literally hours to go to sleep. My eldest is also a very early riser so I knew she would wake early and then wake my younger DD. I explained to my mum and asked if I could just put the cot in the room with me (there was plenty of space). My mum hit the roof about how ungrateful I am and that his her house and I should be thanking them to putting us up, not complaining. The upshot was that I wasn't allowed to move the cot. That night went exactly as I'd expected. The kids didn't go to sleep until almost 10pm (normal bedtime 7.30) and we're both up before 6am. I had 2 vile kids the next day. They were completely and utterly exhausted and every small thing became a huge challenge. The next day my sister arrived and would be sleeping in the room next to my girls room and the following morning was her wedding day. I was so worried that the kids would wake her up in the morning. My older DD has a grow clock so if she's in a room on her own, she wouldnt get up before 7am and youngest DD is a great sleeper so I knew she'd sleep a full 12 hours at least if sharing with me. I was also concerned that on the wedding day they would both be exhausted, grumpy and uncooperative. I was bridesmaid and so I really needed them to be on good form for the wedding.

I called my DH in tears because the whole situation was becoming so stressful. He told me to tell my mum that if she wouldn't just allow me to move the cot, then I would be booking a hotel for the evening. She once again went ballistic at me, calling me names and saying I was blackmailing her. I categorically wasn't. I was telling her the truth. I wasn't going to stay there another night under those circumstances. My mum said to me that I just want everything to revolve around me and that I was obviously trying to ruin my sister's wedding weekend because I was jealous of her. She said a lot of very hurtful things.

Eventually they let me move the cot and, lo and behold, the girls slept amazingly that night. As did my sister and I. The wedding all went smoothly so i was very relieved.

After that though, I came to the decision I couldn't stay at their house on future visits to Scotland. Stuff like this happens every time but I believe my mum was worse because my husband wasn't there with me. I was more vulnerable.

Anyway, things turned really sour when I said I wasn't going to stay with them on our next trip and lots more was said. At one point my mum actually called me a rat infront of my 5 year old DD.

I stayed with my lovely brother and his wife and had a lovely trip. I only saw my mum once and she spent the whole time having my eldest on her lap, sort of whispering into her ear so possibly bad mouthing me.

Anyway, we're heading back up to Scotland in a couple of months and I received a text from my dad saying to remember we're very welcome to stay with them when we visit. I sent a very nice reply, thanking him but explaining that a lot had been said & done which I'm sure he understood, and I thought it would be best to stay elsewhere but spend a lot of time with him and my mum and that we should just take things one step at a time and that I was really looking forward to seeing them.

I then posted on our family WhatsApp group to give them the dates we'd be visiting and asking them to let us know when they're free.

I received a message from my dad (written by my mum) which basically mirrored the message I had sent to my dad saying "these arrangements aren't good for us, I'm sure you'll understand. A lot has been said and done and I think it's best if we visit you at DB & SILs house". So basically I'm not allowed to go to their house when we visit. My D.C. haven't seen their grandparents for 8 months and probably won't see them again until the end of the year. I didn't want to drag the kids into this. DD absolutely loves "grandad garden" and has been talking lots about going there and now I have to tell her we can't go.

AIBU to be upset by this? Am I dealing with this the wrong way? I just feel so lost.

Well done op - you have taken a step forward in booking your driving lessons. Now, do not tell your parents about it. And when you look into furthering your education, do not tell them anything. And if you and your Dh sit down and work though the pros and cons of moving abroad and decide to move, do not tell them until you are on the bloody plane. And do not bother telling siblings about your self improvements either as inevitably someone will let something slip and your mother will be on the phone to you telling you that you are not worthy. You are young, intelligent and well able to do these things, so go for it!

I always feel angry when I read about the Lovely Dads and the Nasty Mums. This was my family set up too; Poor Dad having to put up with Mad Mum. It's bollocks. It's all part of the toxic dynamic. It took me years to realise that my Dad's support of my Mum went a very long way in helping her justify her horrible behaviour, he wasn't just enabling he was actively encouraging it. There's a few reasons why, for example it keeps the focus off him - yes he's throwing, you, his child, to the wolves for a quiet life, or he quite enjoys it - toxic bullies do but this way he gets to do it through someone else so he's not the bad one - this was my Dad. He's my real Dad but disappeared till I was three and then they got back together and he never bonded with me or really liked me. Always a whinge, always a moan, always something I was doing wrong so he'd whine and whisper and criticise to my Mum, wind her up and set her off doing his dirty work.

These Dads are NOT lovely and bullied themselves mostly. They're selfish and out for themselves and often highly involved in the bullying in a back seat driver kind of way.

Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries.

What was the harm in moving the dog? Probably nothing at all. Your mother just wanted control. She's toxic and your father, instead of telling her to stop being so ridiculous, overbearing and controlling just went along with it.

Your DF is also toxic. He may realize she is unreasonable but he facilitated it because that is their dynamic. It does not have to be yours.

Stay in a hotel. Don't share your plans. Forge ahead without them. Just ignore what they do and what they say. If you're not welcome in their home...so be it. Don't visit. Don't pander and don't include. And withhold your children so that they can't poison them.

Grey rock at every turn.

Good luck. OP

Cot not dog.

Your story has made me really sad, OP, your parents are not deserving of your love, respect or consideration. Take comfort in your own family and your brother who you said is lovely. You have not mentioned what his view on this is?

One of the hardest things about this whole story for me is that I have made some very big mistakes in my teen years. Some things that no one know about but in all honesty and not something I'd wish to discuss with a counsellor. I was very depressed at the time and in some sort of self destruct mode. That went on for a couple of years and I pulled myself out of it. This was all about 13-15 years ago and I know I'm a good person now. I put others first and make good choices. I find it hard to forgive myself for the mistakes I have made though, but I know it's because I didn't feel loved. I felt rejected and I felt like it was my fault in some way. That really is a horrendous way to feel. I just want to do better for my own children.

Ok sometimes talking to a stranger be it a counsellor or on MN you find yourself saying things you didn't think about before. They will not judge you as they don't know you. It is often a way to clear issues and thoughts from the past and help you make more meaningful choices about your future. You have a wonderful opportunity to do this and move to new surroundings and build a wonderful life for your own family. Be the person you want to be and not one moulded and shrouded in fear from the past. Best of luck to you. Your mother sounds very toxic and you deserve so much better. Have you ever confronted her about the abuse you suffered as a child/teen?

Have you ever confronted her about the abuse you suffered as a child/teen?

Yes I have confronted her and she denies it all. She & I both know the truth. I can't understand how she can say it's untrue, we were both there.

To give an example, she says she did buy me sanitary towels. She never even once bought me sanitary towels. How she can lie about something which is so black & white I really can't understand.

How she can lie about something which is so black & white I really can't understand.

Abusers do that. I’ve seen my dad repeatedly beat my mother, hit me, siblings, and he will look at me and deny it. My MIL does the same, deny deny deny.... that’s what abusive people have to do in order to survive and abuse again, they can’t possibly think about who they really are.

I hope you eventually realise that ditching both your parents is the only way to protect your DD

This is so similar to my situation with my M and D, I could have written it myself. The horrible, hurtful, unforgivable things my mum has said in front of my dad- it just baffles me. If I said anything like that to DD my DH would walk out. I know he would. I really feel your pain. We had an issue this summer too, which has literally made me ill. I confronted my mum about her control issues (saying she has acrophobia and it’s too much to meet me and DD anywhere or come to our house but will go to Asda or for a dog walk- all visits on her terms) and she cut me off for a month, then started the manipulation of its me who’s cut her off and is being manipulative- all this with my poor dad (spineless dad) in the middle. We had one major day when I went alone to their house to ‘talk it out’ where she presented me with a list of things she wants to give our DD in her home (like baking memories and crafty times etc), all based on me being a bitch for wanting an equal relationship. I stood my ground and D actually backed me up at one point, but nothings changed. Other than I’ve made a silent rule that one week I will visit but then I won’t visit again until they come and see us. We live 20 min drive away and DH and I both work, while they’re both retired. It’s all about control and it’s been difficult but I’ve realised that actually, this has been going on most of my life. Just another opportunity to snap shot this behaviour and remember to never be like this when it’s our turn. Stay strong, it hurts, like pure heartbreak- but ultimately it’s their choices. Thinking of you xxx

Difficult I'm sorry you've had to go through all of this. I sometimes wish there was a delete button on my memory and I could just swipe all the bad stuff because sometimes it taints the good stuff.

When I was younger, I'd pray to grow up. I would count down the years, months & weeks until I'd be old enough to leave home. I couldn't bare being a child. It was awful.

One of my favourite things my DD has ever said to me is "mummy, I don't ever want to grow up! I love being 5 and I want to stay with you, daddy & my sister forever". It made me well up. If I can give them a good childhood and learn lessons from my own then in some way it won't all be for nothing.

Sorry your going through this. I think your mother sounds toxic and if im honest its probably not such a terrible thing for your daughters not to be around her.
Its a real shame about your father but he is also an adult, and he is not supporting you, and is making terrible choices.

I haven't read the full thread.

My mother is also toxic with an enabling husband.

We spend 6 years abroad... I can categorically say it was amazing and did wonders for my relationship with my mum as less contact and interference.

We are now back in the same country and we are seriously considering moving abroad again to lessen the impact of our limited relationship.

So moving abroad might be drastic but also might be brilliant for you all x

You still aren't referencing your brother OP. Is there a backstory there too?

Look at what living abroad can do for your family. I think it is a great idea and would expose your children to different cultures and experiences.
Good on you for booking driving lessons.
I live in Australia and am constantly surprised at the number of people on this site who say they can’t drive.

Wow that is so awful, I'm so sorry you've had to experience all of this.

You sound like a lovely, calm, balanced, reasonable person. You should be so proud of yourself for turning out so well despite such a toxic relationship with your mum.

She will never change. Keep away from her and keep your kids away from it all.

When you look at what I've just written - what do you think of me?

It makes me feel sorry for you that you didn't have a better upbringing. I feel sorry for you that you went through a time making choices that you wouldn't have had you had some love & guidance. It also makes me think that you should be proud of yourself for coming out the other side and being a good person despite the lack of example you had set to you.

Thanks for your post.

How she can lie about something which is so black & white I really can't understand
My mother has done the same thing repetitively. She never said what she said or never did what she did etc etc. A few times my father and even my sister (with whom I no longer have a relationship with after all the meddling by my mother) backed me up with their own similar experiences or having witnessed it but she still flatly denies things and make out we are all delusional or just being cruel to her. It's ultimately taught me, after many years, to just not believe anything she says.

Essentially your dad stood by and was complicit in your neglect and abuse as a child. He prioritised and prioritises his well being above you and his grandchildren.

I understand it’s easier painting your father as the helpless victim because while hard having a shitty parent, it’s harder having two. You are not preventing your children from having a relationship with your father it’s just yet again, he’s choosing to prioritise his relationship with your mother.

Change the narrative. Seeing them at DB’s is a win. You didn’t want to stay at theirs in the first place and now you don’t have to step one foot into their toxic power base, definitely a win.

You’re enabled your father by shielding him from the uncomfortable consequences of his poor choices. Your priority should be shielding your children because when push comes to shove, he will sacrifice them on the ‘keeping your mum happy’ altar, in a heartbeat.

onething exactly. Extend the same compassion to yourself.

How she can lie about something which is so black & white

My mum does this too, and so does / did my ex. My mum will lie about the time/place we agreed to meet so she can create a scene and get "lost" or "abandoned". I've often been so furious about it I've been so petty as to find the email or text and prove to her what she actually said. She then cries that I'm being mean. (And it really isn't a case of her being forgetful for confused - she's totally compos mentis and can remember every detail when she wants to.)

With my ex he would just straight up lie to me about all kinds of things - what he'd just said, what I'd said, reasons why he couldn't do various things with the kids or house, it was endless and often it was ridiculous as the truth was obvious. It would drive me so insane trying to get him to admit the truth that was right in front of him but he would just deny it. By the time I ended things I was a nervous wreck from it and I realised it's actually a very effective strategy if you want to totally mess with someone's head. Just lie and deny however obvious the truth is - no one can make someone admit the truth and it has the effect of making the other person confused, upset, exasperated or angry - emotionally destabilising them and possibly making them get cross with you and you can then play the victim.

Theory test is tomorrow. Wish me luck! Hopefully the first of many things I will achieve from now on

Good luck!!
And don't tell parents about it, they'll only suck the joy out of it.