To be feeling so hurt by my parents?

[OneThingOffTheList]

There's a backstory to this which is a lifetime long so I'll summarise as best I can.

My mum is a manipulative person and has always been emotionally abusive to me. I'm one of her 5 children and she has a bad relationship with all of us. You could say my dad is her enabler, but he is actually a lovely person who has made some questionable choices (such as standing by her) but I believe a lot of that is down to the abuse he's suffered from her over the years.

I could give you a long list of things she has done to me over the years which would shock you but I'll not go into all that right now as I don't want to drag this out.

Basically, things came to a head this summer. It was my sister's wedding weekend. I like in the south of England and I flew up alone with my 2 young children. When I arrived, my mum had set the bedrooms up differently to how she normally would. She had put the cot up in the room that my older DD was going to be sleeping in. My younger DD is a nightmare at sharing a room, every time we've tried, she's take literally hours to go to sleep. My eldest is also a very early riser so I knew she would wake early and then wake my younger DD. I explained to my mum and asked if I could just put the cot in the room with me (there was plenty of space). My mum hit the roof about how ungrateful I am and that his her house and I should be thanking them to putting us up, not complaining. The upshot was that I wasn't allowed to move the cot. That night went exactly as I'd expected. The kids didn't go to sleep until almost 10pm (normal bedtime 7.30) and we're both up before 6am. I had 2 vile kids the next day. They were completely and utterly exhausted and every small thing became a huge challenge. The next day my sister arrived and would be sleeping in the room next to my girls room and the following morning was her wedding day. I was so worried that the kids would wake her up in the morning. My older DD has a grow clock so if she's in a room on her own, she wouldnt get up before 7am and youngest DD is a great sleeper so I knew she'd sleep a full 12 hours at least if sharing with me. I was also concerned that on the wedding day they would both be exhausted, grumpy and uncooperative. I was bridesmaid and so I really needed them to be on good form for the wedding.

I called my DH in tears because the whole situation was becoming so stressful. He told me to tell my mum that if she wouldn't just allow me to move the cot, then I would be booking a hotel for the evening. She once again went ballistic at me, calling me names and saying I was blackmailing her. I categorically wasn't. I was telling her the truth. I wasn't going to stay there another night under those circumstances. My mum said to me that I just want everything to revolve around me and that I was obviously trying to ruin my sister's wedding weekend because I was jealous of her. She said a lot of very hurtful things.

Eventually they let me move the cot and, lo and behold, the girls slept amazingly that night. As did my sister and I. The wedding all went smoothly so i was very relieved.

After that though, I came to the decision I couldn't stay at their house on future visits to Scotland. Stuff like this happens every time but I believe my mum was worse because my husband wasn't there with me. I was more vulnerable.

Anyway, things turned really sour when I said I wasn't going to stay with them on our next trip and lots more was said. At one point my mum actually called me a rat infront of my 5 year old DD.

I stayed with my lovely brother and his wife and had a lovely trip. I only saw my mum once and she spent the whole time having my eldest on her lap, sort of whispering into her ear so possibly bad mouthing me.

Anyway, we're heading back up to Scotland in a couple of months and I received a text from my dad saying to remember we're very welcome to stay with them when we visit. I sent a very nice reply, thanking him but explaining that a lot had been said & done which I'm sure he understood, and I thought it would be best to stay elsewhere but spend a lot of time with him and my mum and that we should just take things one step at a time and that I was really looking forward to seeing them.

I then posted on our family WhatsApp group to give them the dates we'd be visiting and asking them to let us know when they're free.

I received a message from my dad (written by my mum) which basically mirrored the message I had sent to my dad saying "these arrangements aren't good for us, I'm sure you'll understand. A lot has been said and done and I think it's best if we visit you at DB & SILs house". So basically I'm not allowed to go to their house when we visit. My D.C. haven't seen their grandparents for 8 months and probably won't see them again until the end of the year. I didn't want to drag the kids into this. DD absolutely loves "grandad garden" and has been talking lots about going there and now I have to tell her we can't go.

AIBU to be upset by this? Am I dealing with this the wrong way? I just feel so lost.

Families can be hard and complicated. Sometimes I do think some mothers have problems letting us grow up or fail to see that we are grown up adults and still try to treat us as children no matter what age we are. I am heading towards my late 50's and still find this with my mum, she is very critical and hates any one to have a different opinion or not agree with her. It seems to have also gotten worse since I am now divorced and on my own. A few months ago I went to visit my sister some 15 miles from my mum, had some wine, enjoyed myself and stayed over. The next morning she had discovered where I was and rang me on someone else's phone and when I answered was really cross with me because I was there. I was so mortified at her trying to scold me at my age and actually cut her off. Obviously not on the same level as you, but I think a lot of us can identify with your issues.

I’d just accept not going to their house. As an outsider, sounds like it would be better that way as they have no control at all. Plan your trip, if they see you then fine, if not that’s also fine. A relationship with toxic grandparents is NOT better than no relationship at all.

I've been through similar with my parents. I always defended my father too, until he ignored my DC when my mother made him choose. I saw him for the weak man he was, I can't unsee it now and our relationship has never recovered. I know he would put her wants above their needs everytime. Its sad, but it is what it is and the DC won't miss out on much.

I think you're dealing with it in the wrong way by giving your mum the power to hurt you which she will use without reserve. She sounds like a manipulative, narcissistic person who whatever you do will engineer a situation where you're in the wrong. I would just try to be confident that you're a nice, reasonable person acting in a nice reasonable way. If your mother chooses not to do the same (and she will choose this) you should accept that this is what she's like and shield yourself as much as possible from the hurt.

Bluelady
But no one on here would tell a woman, whose spouse was abusing her to back him up. By your logic if ops dh was the nasty to her parents and her parents were nice, op should do the same to back her dh. Different generations don’t come into it.

Your dad's doing exactly what MN says every spouse should do, he's backing your mum up in exactly the way you expect your husband to back you up

Spouses shouldn't support you unconditionally though. If I'm being an arse I don't expect my DP to blindly support me and if he is I'll call him out on it. For example his dad got married a while ago to someone he hadn't known for long. He wasn't very nice about it so I told him he needed to suck it up and be kind or there will be trouble (lightheartedly with my with stern eyes). What matters is he's happy (he's not rich at all so there's no ulterior motive).

And your mum sends you exactly the same message you sent her but, while it's fine from you, it's wrong from her.

I actually do agree a little here, whilst I think you were totally in the right about the whole thing I wouldn't be upset over this message in particular. It's just tit for tat. The situation in general however, I would be hurt by.

@Shartgoblin, I agree entirely. But we're constantly seeing posters being told here that their partner should back them up, often if it entails falling out with their relatives. OP expects hers to do that. Sauce for the goose and all that.

I don't want to be accused of drip feeding but it seems like some posters aren't aware of how bad I've suffered with my mum. So here's some more background just to clarify.

If my dad worked away, which wasn't very often, I wasn't allowed to go to bed until she was going to bed. I was about 8 in this particular instance but I remember being made to stay up until 1am when I had school the next day and I was begging her to let me go to bed.

I was never bought deodorant, sanitary towels or anything like that. I was 13 and used to have to use toilet paper but i had very heavy periods so would soak through my school clothes daily for a week each month. My parents are well off.

She called me fat all the time. I was size 10 and she was size 20. She would always say "I was never as fat as you at your age" and look at me with a face of complete disgust.

In more recent years, I had moved to a new area and had a cancer scare. A lump in my breast. I was referred under the 2 week rule and the letter advised me I should bring someone with me. I asked if my (retired) dad could come to watch the kids so DH could come with me. He said yes. A couple of days before the appointment they called to say they thought they had birds in their chimney and the only day the guy could come out to check was the day of my appointment so my dad could now no longer come. I went to the appointment on my own.

I just wanted to give you all some examples because this is not a case of my mum struggling to come to terms with me growing up. It's a case of her treating me abusively for 30 years.

Hold your position. They can choose to respond how they like. it's painful to you, but your DC will adapt to not going to their house. You need to avoid the whispering in your child's ear.

My father is deceased. My mother remarried to a lovely man and despite being a very young adult when they met, he came to treat me like the daughter he never had - and decidedly better than my mother treated me. I tried to stand up for him once against her and he threw me under the bus. I knew where I stand.

You are letting your mother manipulate you and reel you in. She was fishing. That text was a hook. Don’t bite.

Given time you will realise where you stand as well. Yes, your dad may be lovely. But he has his limitations and just as when you were a child, he will choose your mother every time over your kids. It’s going to really hurt each and every time. This is what your mother is banking on and why she is sending out hooks.

It’s your job to protect you and the kids. It’s your father’s job to fight his own battles. If he can’t that’s really sad but it’s time for you to grieve and centre on your little family.

Your parents will only come and see you? Fine. That’s actually really good imo. Your mother will not be on her own territory and will therefore be less powerful. You will be with your husband, sibling as their partner. Together you can put up a united front.

Hi OP

It does sound like she enjoys control and likes seeing she can get a reaction out of you.

From what you've said they are going to see you, but will visit at your brothers house instead? I think that actually this sounds like a good solution as your kids can still see them but they will hopefully have less power to play control games in someone else's house.

I think your kids will still be OK with you saying grandpa is visiting at you uncles house instead. I know it's about much more than this for you but honestly I think it sounds like it's for the best. They may love seeing their grandpa but I'm sure it won't be at the expense of seeing you screamed at for daring to move a piece of furniture into a more logical arrangement which I imagine they will start to pick up on soon

I know it's hard but I think I'd try and keep communication brief and unemotional. I'd just reply 'great, see you then' and don't let her see it has bothered you to be banned from their home.

Please don't offer up your dc as a sacrifice thinking they will help change these abusers.
Keep your precious dc as far away. Never leave them unsupervised if they turn up at your db's house.

She sounds so toxic I dont know why you are so desperate to run after her and force a relationship. This is coming from someone who has nc with a toxic parent. All your messages to them are so pleasing and tip toeing around upsetting them. They clearly dont care the other way around.

I also think you need to wake up to the fact your dad isnt lovely as you seem to believe. A parent that stands by and allows someone to abuse their children isnt a good one at all!
Why do you even want a relationship for your children with them? After she called you a rat in front of them ?

Just read your update OP. I know you want your kids to have a relationship with your dad and I'm sure they love him. But please don't do this at the expense of your mental health, your kids already have people around who love them, you don't need to put up with more abuse for the sake of them having one more. As they get older they will surely notice how she treats you. They will also notice how your dad picks your mum over them. Would you really trust that she would never treat them the way she treated you? I think moving away was a great move to be honest

Sending the same message back is not horrible because of the message itself though, it's more that it's deliberately pointed because she's copied and used the same form of words. It's a way of saying "I read your message to your dad and I'm in charge" and being aggressive.

OP I know where you're coming from as I was controlled by my mum for years. There is no dad in my situation (divorced ages ago and he was worse) but to me it looks like you've been letting her control you just as your dad does, but to a lesser extent. You "can't" move the cot? Just wait until she's downstairs and just move it. Or wait until bedtime and simply put DD in your bed.

She controls people by being so impossible and unreasonable if you don't do what she wants that everyone would rather just avoid the fallout and the guilt of upsetting her. But when you do stand up to this, the truth is she has no power over you. The minute you simply don't give a crap what she says/thinks or that she might kick off, you can do what you like.

And yet I know how hard it is to take that step. And for your dad, that he's so habituated to coping with her in this way that he can't see any other way. I do think it's possible to be weak in that way and also be lovely, but it's true he hasn't been a good parent to you by failing to stand up to her.

I do think you're handling it well and taking the steps you need to. Of course she will go batshit, and don't be surprised if she becomes ill which can also happen. My mum is so discombobulated by me not taking her crap any more, she just tries to cause chaos - she has nothing else left. For example we arranged to stay overnight with her and my stepdad, and when we arrived she announced we'd cancelled a couple of weeks ago and she wasn't expecting us to stay over - a complete and utter lie that she had no evidence for. So I calmly said "OK I'll just sort out a hotel". She then freaked out and said we had to stay, was I suggesting she wasn't a welcoming host!!!??? After that, we won't go any more - not to punish her, just to avoid the shitstorm. I just don't react any more or try to placate her. I'm just "OK, whatever" or "It's rude to speak to me like that, so I'll be off now bye". She has now power and tragically she never did - it's an illusion that people around her have to collude with to make it work.

Stay calm, remember you can do things even if she declares you can't, and gently remind others of that too. You can visit your own dad and see his garden with your DC - you don't actually need her consent. He can say no of course, but you can kindly remind him he has a choice. There is still time for him to free himself if he wants - and you can help by modelling not being controlled by her.

It's shit and accepting this is what your mum is like is hard, even as a mature adult. A (((hug))) for you from someone who can relate.

*And your mum sends you exactly the same message you sent her but, while it's fine from you, it's wrong from her.

I actually do agree a little here, whilst I think you were totally in the right about the whole thing I wouldn't be upset over this message in particular. It's just tit for tat. The situation in general however, I would be hurt by.*

I put a lot of time and effort into that first message I sent my dad and it was completely genuine and from the heart. To the have someone copy it all in such a sarcastic way is just cruel. I'm not upset over the message in particular, I'm upset that I have to tell my kids we're not welcome at their grandparents house (although I obviously won't word it that way to them).

OneThingOffTheList
So many of us have been through this ourselves and we can see it for what it is.
Its so hard for kids to deal with the fact that their parent is unloving or abusive that we tend to split them up so that we have one bad one and one good one that loves us.

Thats a useful coping mechanism when we are children. But it stops working for us when we reach adulthood, and it becomes toxic when we have children of our own.

Your mother is actively abusive and your father enables her. He isn't a lovely man. He gets all the sympathy and all the cookies for doing absolutely nothing.

The healthiest thing you can do is disengage and walk away. Go for counselling, for yourself.

You're not wrong to be hurt, but I'd do as a PP has said and just reply, "Great, looking forward to seeing you then!"

Don't give her the satisfaction of your unhappiness at her response.

I've seen your update and I do understand. My mum has insulted and undermined me all my life and picked apart everything about my body, clothes and appearance - but even the slightest criticism directed at her and there's hell to pay. She's told me quite openly that I am a carbon copy of her and just a younger version of her (I'm not!). She doesn't see me as a human, more like a toy to do what she likes with. I remember her sending me to school with olive oil all over my hair because she wanted to see what it would look like as it was what the local Pakistani families did (I don't even know if they did!). I was 8 and totally confused and humiliated. I remember her making me try on her friend's wedding outfit as a teen, in front of everyone, because her friend was a size 10 and she knew it wouldn't fit me and then she could have a go at my weight. (I was perfectly healthy, just tall and bigger than a 10.) . I remember her comparing me to my petite, girly schoolfriend X and telling me I'd never get a man and I should do my hair like X. And on and on. Like you, I could list thousands of insults and slights.

A mum who does this simply lacks the capacity to do mothering. To her, family members are there to meet her need for control - not to respect or understand as individuals.

Have you read Toxic Parents? Please do if not - it helped me a lot. Also A Woman in Your Own Right by Anne Dickson.

I’m sorry you went through that OP.

I agree that your DF is making his choice here. If you’re not welcome at their house, I wouldn’t entertain them at all.

I should have said, I already replied last night to say

"okay, if that's what you think is best."

Not sure if that was the right thing to say or not?

Just read your update, you seem to know your childhood was bad, but you don’t seem to realise quite how bad. The fact you are still tolerating her, and doing as your told re the cot, staying at the house etc shows what a job she’s done on your confidence. She has you still under her control. Don’t let her!

Don’t visit at her house when you go, tbh I wouldn’t even give them the dates. Just ping a message thr last day you are at your brother’s and say ‘do you want to visit?’. Put the ball in her court, and let her come to you. If she doesn’t well, you’ve had a nice visit and you know where you stand.

I know you love your Dad, but he’s a grown assed man and he has chosen his wife over the obvious abuse of you. Some men are spectacularly good at turning a blind eye, if it means an easy life for them.

I hope you get get past their terrible behaviour, you sound like a lovely person.

OneThingOffTheList why are you even in contact with these people? They are horrendous, your dad included as he has stood by your vile mother while she has been manipulative, condescending and abusive towards you. Personally I would not give your parents the opportunity to have any influence over your children as they will inevitably grow up with fucked up ideas as to how parents treat their adult children. They will see how vulnerable you are and wonder why the hell you tolerate it when you can tell your parents to fuck off to hell. I wouldn't even tell them you are visiting your siblings. If they do happen to visit your siblings house don't under any circumstances leave your kids alone with them as there will be more whispers and put downs. You are a grown woman with a family of your own and it's time you stood up to these bullies and stopped trying to pander to them. I'd have gone NC long before now.

Go NC with your parents, this is just going to get worse, if your mum is willing to bad mouth you to your daughter when she is so young where is it going to end.