A splitting the bill AIBU

[JamHolyMoly]

We recently went out for dinner to celebrate my step-father's retirement. There were 11 adults and 4 children. The adults, bar one, had 3 courses. Most had at least one alcoholic drink, some only had soft drinks. Money wise, most people consumed roughly the same amount of food and drink except for one person who had the most expensive dish on the menu (double the cost of everyone else's). This person also had a number of very expensive drinks as well as a couple of extra side dishes. The children all had the kids menu food which was £8 for 3 courses. They all drank water.

At the end of the meal, the guest who had the most expensive meal got the bill and told everyone that it would be £40 a head, and included the children in this. We have 3 children so by his working out of the bill we owed £200 for me, dh and our 3 children.

FYI I am not someone who ever argues about the bill and I'm always happy to split the bill evenly amongst all adults present. I don't think I have ever refused to pay an evenly split bill so I don't have form for this.

Anyway, I immediately said that DH and I weren't going to be paying £120 for our three children's meals seeing as their 3 courses totalled £24. It then became really awkward as the person who had split the bill up started getting arsey with me and made a number of rude comments implying I was being tight and basically tried to embarrass me in front of the group. I kept my cool and didn't bite back. Everyone else went very quiet and refused to be drawn into it. My dh was chatting to an acquaintance at another table at the time so he didn't even know what was going on and wasn't there to back me up. It put a dampener on the entire occasion and it's left me feeling very upset that no one spoke up to say "hey that's not fair to expect Jam and dh to pay £120 for £24 food".

In the past I have always stood up for people when they've had one course and a soft drink but been asked to pay an evenly split bill which covered alcohol and numerous course, and would never expect someone to pay for my meal if I had had considerably more than them. I told the person to remove the £24 we owed for the kids from the total bill and then we were happy to split the remaining amount amongst all adults and add the £24 onto the amount we personally owed. I didn't expect anyone to pay for our children's meals but likewise I didn't expect for us to be covering everyone else's expensive food options and alcohol consumption through our children.

Anyway, a couple of family members have since contacted me to say that I ruined the occasion and have upset SF and his (adult) children.

I honestly don't believe I was unfair to refuse to pay £120 for my children's meals but at the same time a number of people in the family disagree and think I was being very unfair. I don't understand their mindset or how they can justify this so maybe I ABU? What do you all think? Should I just have sucked it up and paid the entire £200?

"we'll split the bill" but I knew there were two people there who'd only had soft drinks and a plate of chips because they were badly off. I could see they were worried but weren't going to say anything so I piped up "no, everyone's paying for their own"

There's a bit of a problem with this, though - in a group, it's likely that there may be things such as bread, olives, water etc which are charged for.

And the tip.

I have found myself on the other side of this: settling a bill in a large group, when people have left and left me what they calculate is what they've eaten/drunk, and there's a shortfall - and I've been left with that, or with a small group left with that - so we've had to suck up the extra.

In my experience, people who pay exactly for what they've ordered, rarely calculate on the extras - tip etc - which I always accept are a "cost" of eating in a sociable large-ish group.

So while I think the OP was definitely NOT unreasonable, some of these later stories suggest that there's also unreasonableness on the part of people who pay for exactly what they ate.

@GreenHousekeeping, you appear to move in more rarified circles than most of us

The sarcasm of this is not lost on me, but you may have a point.

The idea of covering your plate (esp at a wedding) is very much alive and kicking amongst my friends, and we are all comfortable enough financially for this not to be a huge issue.

Things ebb and flow over time, and sometimes we do subsidise each other but then again there are no obvious CFers in our circle (they just wouldn't be invited again).

Bottom line is, unless I very definitely had enough money on me to cover myself, the birthday person and for any unexpected CFery, I just wouldn't attend a gathering - I'd arrange to celebrate with the guest of honour another time.

I don't think it's the norm for the guests to pay for the birthday persons meal either

Gosh! I'd never dream of taking someone out for their birthday and NOT paying for them! Or splitting the bill between the rest of the group to include covering the birthday person. So it's absolutely the norm in my life.

And in Germany, it's the other way around - if you go out for someone's birthday, they invite you and foot the bill. It always feels odd to me, but that's the German custom.

OnTheHop, I wasn't confrontational at all. I was calm and said that I wasn't paying £120 for £24 worth of meals and did suggest another way to pay it. The person who immediately got worked up about it and started ridiculing me for being tight was SF son. My voice was calm and level, his was raised.

As for bad manners and upsetting scenes, in this instance bad manners aka 'sticking up for myself' was more important than paying a ridiculous amount for basic standard children's meals plus other people's alcohol and expensive meal options. I didn't want anyone to fund my children's meals but likewise my children shouldn't be funding everyone else's alcohol and expensive meal choices.

@GreenHousekeeping - the last time I took friends out for my birthday I paid the whole bill using money my mother had given to celebrate with. No way would I expect them to pay for me. I I couldn't have afforded to I'd have at least paid for my own, and probably covered the drinks or something as well.

Then again, my friends and I tend to go the other direction. I was out for dinner last week. Meal come to over £20, one friend paid by card and tried to get us to just give her a tenner. We did both give twenty but she wouldn't take any more (and she's not rich by any means). The time before I'd gone out with friends of DPs, who persuaded me to have the most expensive item on the menu. But then I felt guilty so sneaked off and paid the whole bill (but let them cover the later rounds of drinks).

@JamHolyMoly

You did the right thing. Ignore anyone who says you ruined the evening or caused a scene. The son caused the fall out, not you.

The rest of your family have honestly shocked me, though!

Agreed OP.

The reason YANBU here is specifically because the CF who expected to be subsidised was effectively a random guest, who (I'm assuming) isn't someone with whom you regularly dine and therefore would be unlikely to be repaying your 'generosity' anytime soon?

This is CFery in the highest order, and IMO very different from the fairly common expectation that the guests at a birthday dinner share the cost of the birthday guest's meal and drinks.

EnglishRose, me too. I feel half really angry at them for keeping quiet on the day and letting me be a lone voice at the table and also disappointed. As for their behaviour towards me after the meal, I'm baffled why they can't see how unfair it was. I'm seeing my mum later so am intrigued about her take on it. She hasn't said anything to me since the meal and seems fine via text so I'm wondering if it's the big deal my sister seems to think it is.

Then again, my friends and I tend to go the other direction. I was out for dinner last week. Meal come to over £20, one friend paid by card and tried to get us to just give her a tenner. We did both give twenty but she wouldn't take any more (and she's not rich by any means). The time before I'd gone out with friends of DPs, who persuaded me to have the most expensive item on the menu. But then I felt guilty so sneaked off and paid the whole bill (but let them cover the later rounds of drinks).

IMO, this is really quite problematic, as nobody knows where they stand and misunderstandings/inadvertant CFery are likely to happen.

I do understand that etiquette is dying a death in the modern age, but the whole reason for it is that people know in advance what is expected of them.

The awkward flapping around such as you describe seems to be the worst of all worlds!

GreenHouseKeeping, I virtually never see the son and I certainly don't plan to dine with him again anytime soon!

Yes jam that would upset me too.

Will your DMum support you in this do you think?

x post. He sounds dreadful, you did well to call him out on it.

I do understand that etiquette is dying a death in the modern age, but the whole reason for it is that people know in advance what is expected of them

Etiquette changes over time anyway. Once upon a time it was considered the height of rudeness to take a bottle of wine with you if you were invited for dinner. Now, people think it's bad form if you don't.

Now, people think it's bad form if you don't

No, its still considered poor form to take wine!

Seriously though, I think that these days, social behaviour is less governed by accepted 'norms' and people are just doing whatever feels right to them on a case by case basis.

This is leading to clashes of expectations and values and, IMO the rise of CFery - In the absence of a clearly defined set of parameters, individuals push their luck resulting in the horror stories described in this thread.

I always split the bill but even I wouldn't want to in your situation. If there was just one child eating an £8 meal, I probably wouldn't say anything as it isn't a huge amount but no way should you have been asked to pay £120 for food costing £24. Don't feel bad the step son is a CF and those who stayed on his side so as not to cause a scene are total wimps. Nobody in their right mind could think what he did was fair and I would be really angry about the fact that they didn't back you up.

Never split the bill here. If we go out, we go out with a family budget, simple as that. We make it clear at the start then leave everyone else to do what works for them. I find that once you say it aloud other people look relieved & follow suit.

YANBU. I think most families would have been happy to cover the cost of your DC’s food, not the other way round!

I can’t believe anyone could think that you’re the one in the wrong here

I went out for a meal as part of a friends hen do. At the time I was on maternity leave so had limited funds. I had gone online previously and looked for the cheapest 2 courses (had to have at least 2 courses). When it came to the meal I ordered the 2 cheap courses along with a large coke. Others ordered a few bottles of wine, 3 courses (some expensive).
When it came time to pay, luckily no one said about splitting equally. Instead, people just started putting in what they thought they owed. As I had looked at the menu earlier I knew exactly how much mine cost (around £20), so gave £25 to cover a tip as well. We were then asked to chip in more as we were £80 short without counting the tip!!
Obviously I couldn't afford that so stood up for myself and said sorry, no. One of my friends who had the same meals and drink as me but also had a dessert (so maybe an extra £5) and had already paid her share, ended up putting in £10 more just to keep the peace. I did notice that the ones with the expensive meals and wine kept quiet when the bride kept asking for more money.

Usually I'm a bit 'meh, don't be such a tight arse' when we have the 'she had a starter, he had a coke that was £3, he had a large wine for £9' type conversation. I retaliate with dessert wines etc. to CFs and they generally get the message when dealt some of their own medicine.

But on this one we're talking kiddies meals, its ridiculous. Split the bill among the adults and pay for the kids separately is the reasonable way forward. OP you are definitely NBU.

Bloody hell. Your sis and step brother both acted like arseholes, well done for standing up for yourself OP. It's too often we read posts on here about people who have been in your situation and just paid up, just to come and moan about it afterwards.

"No, its still considered poor form to take wine!"

You're wrong

It’s poor form to take a bottle of wine to a dinner party?! Why did I not get that memo?

I would never dream of showing up to someone’s house empty handed!

I often meet up with a group of friends in a local pub for a drink and we sometimes buy some nibbles, ie olives, bowls of chips to share between us. We all put some money into a kitty as and when we arrive. The money is in a pile in the middle of the table and we just help ourselves when ordering drinks. If someone is only having soft drinks they don’t add as much to the kitty. It’s worked well for years with no problems.

On one occasion we met, someone turned up with their new boyfriend. They were both very apologetic and said they’d come out without any money between them but we said no problem, use the kitty to get a drink and put some extra in next time we meet up. The boyfriend took a handful of coins and headed off to the bar..or so we thought. From where I was sat I saw that he stopped off at the fruit machines and put some money in. He hit the jackpot. He then went to the bar, changed the coin into notes which looked about £100, (I’d wandered a bit nearer at this point) pocketed the money and bought a couple of soft drinks.

After a little while and in a loud enough voice that everyone could hear I asked him if he was going to contribute to the kitty.

Everyone reminded me that we'd agreed they’d contribute extra next time so why was was I being awkward about it. I explained what had happened he denied it, so I asked the barman who confirmed he’d changed the coins for £100 in notes.

Our friend’s boyfriend slammed some of the money down on the table and said they were leaving. Our friend told him to go ahead and that she was not going with him. Fortunately it was a new relationship which she was already having doubts about. We all bought her a few drinks and she drowned her sorrows or maybe celebrated a lucky escape.

We all continue to meet up with no problems.

No, you should still bring a hostess gift, but not wine (unless you are specifically asked to)

Wine is considered rude, as traditionally, you should assume your host has a well-stocked wine cellar, and has given thought to which wines they will serve with each course of the meal.

If you bring wine, you put your host in an awkward position; you are effectively overruling your host's pre-selected wine with whatever you have brought along with you. You're also assuming you know more about wine than your host, and implying that they don't have a suitable collection of wines from which to choose.

Is your host expected to abandon their wine pairings and serve yours instead? Will your wine compliment the food? Is your wine of better/poorer quality than the Host's offerings?

Obviously times have moved on a bit, but to bring wine potentially upsets what your host has planned for you and creates awkwardness/a bit of a competitive situation.

Best avoided really.