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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

She came to my door stop and started screaming at me!!

302 replies

PupsAndKittens · 11/02/2019 23:05

So for some (not particularly relevant) background, I am 19 and also have ASD ( I identify as HF. I know that some people don’t believe in HF, but that’s how I chose to identify myself as I feel that is what best represents me. )

I was fortunate enough to have a job trial on Sunday. I have been unemployed for six months now ( last job was great but unfortunately was a summer temp Sad).

I do not currently drive, so I politely asked DBF if she would take me. She kindly said yes. I asked because trains are doable but awkward on a Sunday so was just wondering if she could help me out. (BTW Job is roughly 35 minutes in the car, and usually on weekdays and Saturdays, 30 minutes on train – no changes )

The day before the trial, I went out for lunch with DBF and her DM. DM tells me that she is not happy with her DD taking me to this interview/trial, and that she wished that DD had not agreed to take me in the first place. On the drive home from lunch, DBF tells me that she is not sure if she will be able to take me now as she might be “busy” ( I asked her to define “busy“, and she replied with “stuff“). Anyway she said would let me know in the morning.

The next morning I got up, and messaged DBF to see if you could still take me. This was about 7 o’clock in the morning (I do understand that this is very early and was not expecting an answer straight away). However when I looked back at 8:30: no answer. I appreciate that 8:30 is still fairly early, but she knew that if I was to get the train I would need to leave in about 15 minutes. I decided to ring her DM and asked if DBF could still take me. She said she would ask and get back to me. About five minutes later I got a text through from DBF saying she would take me followed by a quick call from DBFs M, confirming the text as well as wishing me good luck (I thought this was very sweet and said thank you).

DBF picks me up and drives me to the interview. I said that I will pay her some petrol money, in which she said don’t worry about it at the moment. I then went and had my job interview/trial. While I thought that it went well, unfortunately I have reason to believe that on this occasion I have been unfortunate, as I feel there are too many factors going against me on this occasion. However I was pleased with how I performed in the trial and thought the people that I was working with where charming.

After the trial I rang DBF to see where she wanted to meet. There were a few shops I need to go round but due to the probable outcome of the trial, I felt very down and just really wanted to go home. One of the shops we did go in was Poundland as I desperately needed some new earplugs, as I didn’t have any as they were all broken My friend wanted to buy a car charger but was 20p short as her phone had died, which is what she used to buy things. So I offered that I would pay. she refused, but I insisted. After a few more shops we decided to Head home. Due to me not eating I asked if we could go for the MackieD drive-through. I ended up having to change my order, as the burger I wanted was 6 pounds on its own and I refused to pay that. There was then some issues with the drive-through as basically they forgot my order! So a bit anoyed, went in and had to pick it up. So a McDonald’s which should’ve taken one minute, ended up taking about seven minutes!

On the journey back we listen to music though a Bluetooth speaker. I do appreciate that I might of been slightly self-indulgent with being disappointed that I didn’t think I got it. But DBF didn’t seem to say anything. Near the end of the journey I deliberately chose the song “Days” by Kirsty MacColl to show my gratitude for all she did for me that day. When she dropped me off she seems absolutely fine and normal.

I have been home for about 20 minutes, when I had DBFs car pull up outside. I sensibly thought that I had forgotten something or picked somethings up In error: WRONG!! I answer the door to find her DM screaming that I am a ungrateful piece of st! And that I was a nightmare all day, as I was unsociable as I had my headphones in all day (er going back to poundland). When I try to defend myself and say I literally have done none of these things, she called me a liar. She went on to say how she needed her DDs help and that I just abused her! Transpires that she was angry because I didn’t give petrol money even though she asked me not to! All the things she said about me were completely fabricated and not true at all!

This really upset me so much: I actually ended up crying myself to sleep. Which is rare!

I had to leave college early today, as I was just so down I couldn’t concentrate on anything. This is where things get really strange! As I was walking back from the train station, guess who I hear: DBF caling my nick-name! I tell her that we need to talk, but she tells me she can’t as she will miss her train (she had 10 minutes!). I say to her that I didn’t appreciate her DM screaming at my front door. She said I know it was out of order and have told her off. I then tried to give her the money, but she literally just ran off like The Bloody White Rabbit, saying she was late. Unbelievable!

Not so much a AIBU, but more of a WWYD? DBF is like a sister to me and I really don’t want to ruin our friendship over this. But I would like some advice on how to go forward. Thank you

OP posts:
zzzzz · 12/02/2019 00:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FordPrefect42 · 12/02/2019 00:19

@PupsAndKittens

I asked her to define “busy”

Taken verbatim from your OP, but I appreciate I may well be being pedantic here as you may have worded this differently IRL.

AfterSchoolWorry · 12/02/2019 00:19

And I never asked her to define busy.

It says in your OP:

DBF tells me that she is not sure if she will be able to take me now as she might be “busy” ( I asked her to define “busy“

FordPrefect42 · 12/02/2019 00:20

Huh? You’re 19 and you have a DS with severe anxiety? I think that may have been an error

(I’m 19 too btw)

PupsAndKittens · 12/02/2019 00:20

To everyone asking this is the FIRST TIME I have ever asked her to give me a lift anywhere

OP posts:
FordPrefect42 · 12/02/2019 00:21

X-post @afterschoolworry 😆

PupsAndKittens · 12/02/2019 00:21

@FordPrefect42 I mean sister

OP posts:
IamPickleRick · 12/02/2019 00:22

I love that your username is Pupsandkittens and someone is shouting through your litter box Grin

Anyway in situations like this, often my friends just transfer me the money so we don’t have to do the Take the money/no I couldn’t possibly/but I insist dance.

Nickpan · 12/02/2019 00:23

Dear OP, stop changing your story :)
I thanked her 5 times/10 times, I needed to go to the shops, no, she needed to go to the shops, I didn't ask her to define busy/I asked her to define busy.
Your friend sounds very patient, try not to badger her into doing things, or her mum will flip her lid.

PinaColada1 · 12/02/2019 00:23

She shouldn’t have screamed at you. That’s wrong to shout.

However this does read as if it’s all about you. It’s s lot about what you did. You did treat her like a taxi and ignore her with your headphones on, and use her like a chauffeur.

You should be clear when asking for a favour that you don’t then ask for more on the day, and be appreciative by saying thank you, and not putting your headphones on at any point.

I would contact your friend directly, apologise for wearing headphones and going to do so many other things.

PupsAndKittens · 12/02/2019 00:24

What I mean is I said “ so are you still taking me or are you are you busy” and she said yes with stuff

OP posts:
AfterSchoolWorry · 12/02/2019 00:24

What was I meant to do? Run after her.

No. That's not the lesson to learn here OP. The lesson is about studying what NT people mean when they talk.

As I said in my post earlier: For future, if people seem doubtful/unsure/ambiguous about arrangements it often means 'no. Even if that's not directly said.

You'll have to work hard to decode peoples meanings. I know. But in future, try to get yourself around. Your friend was reluctant. People won't always say that directly.

That's the lesson you draw here.

PupsAndKittens · 12/02/2019 00:26

@PinaColada1 I didn’t put any head phones on at all, at any point in the day

OP posts:
PinaColada1 · 12/02/2019 00:26

I don’t understand what’s going on now really. You have a DS?

PupsAndKittens · 12/02/2019 00:28

@PinaColada1 I meant sister

OP posts:
NorfolkRattle · 12/02/2019 00:28

This is good advice. I agree she needs to explain to the friend "I need to be told clearly when you don't want to wait for lunch/ when you really would like petrol money" etc. People with ASD (and that includes those considered high-functioning) often struggle with picking up hints.

Also, once someone has said "I don't want to wait for lunch/I really would like petrol money" etc, it's equally important that the OP accepts that. (Context: My MIL is almost certainly on the autistic spectrum but, in her 80s, she has never been tested so never formally diagnosed. She knows she misses hint and, says to us "You've got to tell me when something is wrong!", so we do. . .but then she either sulks or shouts and/or totally ignores what we have said! This is tyrannical and the consequence of that is, she is not liked even in the family.)

When someone says "I am busy", that's all you need to know. They don't have to tell you what kind of busy and they don't have to justify it. This is something else you have to accept. (I see another poster has mentioned this.)

And OP, buying a MacDonalds, etc can often take slightly longer than you expect: allow time for this. Expecting this kind of interaction to take one minute is unreasonable.

Nickpan · 12/02/2019 00:30

Pupandkittens, what do you think of AfterSchoolWorry's post?

BlankTimes · 12/02/2019 00:31

Nickpan
In general, would you perhaps admit, in all honesty, do you perhaps not pick up on hints?

The first line of the OP's post says "I am 19 and also have ASD"

That should tell you everything you need to know about 'picking up on hints.'

If it means nothing to you, then please learn what autism is and how it affects someone. Just in case your Google's broken, this is a quote from the National Autistic Society on the criteria for diagnosis.

"The characteristics of autism vary from one person to another, but in order for a diagnosis to be made, a person will usually be assessed as having had persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction and restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests (this includes sensory behaviour), since early childhood, to the extent that these 'limit and impair everyday functioning'."

Nickpan · 12/02/2019 00:37

@BlankTimes, yes sorry, I allowed to let myself get frustrated.
Back to whether or not the headphones were worn for 2 songs or 3.

CantStopMeNow · 12/02/2019 00:39

Why can't we just go back to speaking normally!
That's what we Aspies are always wondering about NT's!

Like, why can't NT people just say what they mean and mean what they say?
How is that so difficult?
Everything is clear, everybody knows where they stand and it cuts out a lot of the crap that causes problems in relationships and society at large.

To do so otherwise is just plain idiocy - and yet NT's think their way of doing things is 'normal' Hmm

OP, it took me years of trial and error to understand these nuances because i had nobody to teach me.
Eventually i got to the point where i'm like "well if they can't/won't give a clear answer then i'll take that as a 'no' and do my own thing".
Funnily enough, my NT friends still play this dynamic and then get upset with each other over 'misunderstandings' - so it's not just an ASD thing.

I had nobody to teach me because nobody suspected i had ASD, instead i just got bullied left, right and centre.
This woman is a bully and i would be texting her back telling her to wind her neck in - and then blocking her number.
How DARE she do that to you! Angry Angry
Would it be acceptable to do that to her daughter? Angry

Her dd is old enough to drive - so old enough to make her own decisions without mummy-dearest doing the thinking and speaking for her.

In fact, i think the mother's behaviour towards you and your friend was abusive in itself.
She 'confronted' you at lunch in an overbearing and aggressive manner, trying to over-rule a decision that her ADULT daughter made for herself. In fact it had fuck all to do with her.
Then she turns up at your door to shout at you - i would have slammed the door in her face and called the police over her aggressive and intimidating behaviour. I wouldn't give a fuck who's mother she is.
She's probably also lying about needing her dd to do something for her , more like she just wanted to be able to call the shots where her dd is concerned, her dd was ignoring the controlling behaviour and the only way DM can regain control over her is by attacking you.

I think your friend needs to be clear in her replies to you, she needs to stop allowing her mother to influence/control her, stop telling her every detail/complaint - and she needs to grow up and take responsibility for her role in this mess.

BlankTimes · 12/02/2019 00:39

@PupsAndKittens

I'm so sorry you're getting a hard time on here from people who haven't got a clue what it's like to have autism.

AIBU does attract some people who only want to be critical and nitpick all the details of your post just to upset you.
Not everyone who is posting on this thread is being helpful.
Not everyone posting on this thread wants to be helpful.

Maybe you'd get a better response, certainly it would be a more understanding one, on SNChat.

AlexaAmbidextra · 12/02/2019 00:54

You and your best friend sound lovely.

I’m sorry but where do you get this from? Neither person sounds particularly lovely? I don’t know why people feel they have to say this. I’ve seen it a number of times on here and can never see why.

goingtotown · 12/02/2019 00:56

DBF said she may be busy, & would ring you in the morning. Why did you ask her to define busy? You sent a text at 7am & phoned her at 8.30, its obvious she didn’t want to give you a lift.
Why did you phone her DM? You should of made your own way to the trial & not involved anyone. You’re 19 not 9.
Offering to pay for petrol is not the same as actuallly giving money. Apart from buying petrol, it’s expensive running a car. Your friend is not a taxi.

WellThisIsShit · 12/02/2019 01:05

I’m actually glad you wrote out all the details of what happened - thank you, that was helpful. It’s clear you are confused about what happened, so you need help working it out and giving us the whole story enables us to go through it and share our ideas and interpretation...

... and interpretation of the details is what allows us to decode the social cues and give meaning to all this stuff, otherwise it is just lots and lots of details. It must get pretty overwhelming trying to sort through these whole loads of facts and details, when you haven’t got ‘the handbook of social cues’.

I think some posters haven’t understood that.

In this case, I think the difficulty lies in knowing when to take people’s answers at surface level, knowing they mean exactly what they say, and when you need to read under the surface, and not take the literal meaning of the words as the whole entire meaning of the social interaction.

Eg. when is it correct to push someone beyond their first answer, and ‘not take no for an answer’?

It can be rude and pushy sometimes: Like when asking for a favour, especially when it would require that person going to considerable inconvenience to do this favour for you.

But at other times it’s the best and most polite thing to do, when it’s a codified social etiquette, where something is offered by person A, the other person B refuses to take it, BUT it is a token refusal, and it’s part of a ritual, where the first person, A, then insists again on giving whatever it is, and person B might refuse again, and this dance can go on a couple more times until go out is satisfied, and person A ‘wins’ by gently persisting, and person B gives in gracefully: Like when offering to repay money / or repay someone having done you a favor, by you doing a favour for them in return / or showing your appreciation for a friend having done a favor for you, by giving small gifts or going out of your way to be exceptionally kind to that person.

This must be SO difficult for you, as a person who has autism/ Aspergers, to navigate these social nuances.

Your friend has handled this very unsympathetically. And her mother is just awful for behaving like she has done!

From your friends perspective I suspect this is what has happened:

You ask for a lift. Your friend gives a confusing answer to you. You ask for a lift again, seeking factual clarification... and get increasingly anxious for clarification as the time gets closer. You finally get a yes. So you think, right, my friend wants to give me a lift and she is completely happy about that.

Unfortunately. people find it difficult to say a plain and clear ‘no’ when they are asked to do a favour. People often think the other person should just ‘know’, by the ‘no answer’ and avoidance that follows such a request. If someone who is NT carries on pushing and pushing for that favour, it is considered rude and the other person may say yes, because they don’t know how to handle a confrontation. That’s not a happy yes, it’s grudging sad yes. They will probably do the favour out of a sense of duty, but the friendship will be severely tested, even broken.

I know that might sound very confusing because if you apply the same logic to the ‘repaying the money’ situation that happened later, you could think you did the right thing by not pushing and pushing... but nope, sorry! Context is king, as they say.

Asking for favors = do not ask multiple times! If you receive a ‘no answer’ eg a refusal to directly answer, or silence, avoiding the subject or avoiding you yourself, that actually means no to your question.

You offering an (appropriate) gift / compensation / favour in return for something they’ve done for you = Asking more than once is considered polite. They are being polite saying ‘no no please don’t bother’, or ‘it’s not necessary’/ ‘it was no trouble’, they probably do not actually mean it. They may well mean the exact opposite! You keep trying to give, and after a couple of no’s, this social ritual should end with them ‘giving in’ and accepting your gift / repayment or whatever it is. This does take some skill to get it right though!

Now, in your case your friend should have understood your motivations were completely different and that you didn’t mean to make her feel bad by pushing her for an answer like that.

But sometimes people do have lapses of empathy and maybe your friends feelings got the better of her, and just came in first, before her rational side made adjustments for you. It can be hard on people, if they constantly have to make adjustments and don’t get their own feelings tended to enough.

I would advise you to:

  1. Apologise profusely by text to your friend.
  1. Phone / meet up to explain in more detail, including suggesting ways to stop this happening again eg asking her to tell you straight and reminding her you won’t be offended? Or asking her if she can give you a sign, or a code like a word or phrase when you know to back off and stop asking?
  1. Ignore the frightful mother!!!

This is the kind of thing I’d say in the text. It’s time to be gentle and thoughtful about how your friend might be feeling. Friendships are about give and take. If your friend feels like she’s done too much giving, and you too much taking, then she needs to hear from you that you want to GIVE (in emotional terms) to her. I know you’re upset about what’s happened, but it would be a mistake to ask your friend to explain and / or ‘make it better’ for you, as those are both her doing more Giving in the relationship at a time when she might feel like she has little left to give.

So here’s my text: Tell her you are extremely sorry you may have made her feel pressured into giving you a lift. Apologise for keeping her out long after your job trial finished. Tell her that you thought she was enjoying it at the time but you’ve since realised that she may not have been enjoying herself as much as you were, and you might have been causing problems for her keeping her out so long. Then say that although you don’t understand why her mother felt it was ok to turn up and shout at you for something you weren’t aware of doing wrong in the first place, but you do t want to cause your friend problems. Then suggest meeting up to discuss it and to make sure you both can sort out any problems in the future before they get out of hand, as you value her as a friend far too much!

Ok that’s a loooomg text! Perhaps say half of that and suggest phoning or meeting up to say the rest of it?!

Smotheroffive · 12/02/2019 01:09

Clearly people are taking the piss and not reading a thread that has repeatedly said what HF means!!

Maybe they are not so HF!!

Also, D(ear) is normally only used for family connections, not BFFs or even BFs