She came to my door stop and started screaming at me!!

[PupsAndKittens]

So for some (not particularly relevant) background, I am 19 and also have ASD ( I identify as HF. I know that some people don’t believe in HF, but that’s how I chose to identify myself as I feel that is what best represents me. )

I was fortunate enough to have a job trial on Sunday. I have been unemployed for six months now ( last job was great but unfortunately was a summer temp ).

I do not currently drive, so I politely asked DBF if she would take me. She kindly said yes. I asked because trains are doable but awkward on a Sunday so was just wondering if she could help me out. (BTW Job is roughly 35 minutes in the car, and usually on weekdays and Saturdays, 30 minutes on train – no changes )

The day before the trial, I went out for lunch with DBF and her DM. DM tells me that she is not happy with her DD taking me to this interview/trial, and that she wished that DD had not agreed to take me in the first place. On the drive home from lunch, DBF tells me that she is not sure if she will be able to take me now as she might be “busy” ( I asked her to define “busy“, and she replied with “stuff“). Anyway she said would let me know in the morning.

The next morning I got up, and messaged DBF to see if you could still take me. This was about 7 o’clock in the morning (I do understand that this is very early and was not expecting an answer straight away). However when I looked back at 8:30: no answer. I appreciate that 8:30 is still fairly early, but she knew that if I was to get the train I would need to leave in about 15 minutes. I decided to ring her DM and asked if DBF could still take me. She said she would ask and get back to me. About five minutes later I got a text through from DBF saying she would take me followed by a quick call from DBFs M, confirming the text as well as wishing me good luck (I thought this was very sweet and said thank you).

DBF picks me up and drives me to the interview. I said that I will pay her some petrol money, in which she said don’t worry about it at the moment. I then went and had my job interview/trial. While I thought that it went well, unfortunately I have reason to believe that on this occasion I have been unfortunate, as I feel there are too many factors going against me on this occasion. However I was pleased with how I performed in the trial and thought the people that I was working with where charming.

After the trial I rang DBF to see where she wanted to meet. There were a few shops I need to go round but due to the probable outcome of the trial, I felt very down and just really wanted to go home. One of the shops we did go in was Poundland as I desperately needed some new earplugs, as I didn’t have any as they were all broken My friend wanted to buy a car charger but was 20p short as her phone had died, which is what she used to buy things. So I offered that I would pay. she refused, but I insisted. After a few more shops we decided to Head home. Due to me not eating I asked if we could go for the MackieD drive-through. I ended up having to change my order, as the burger I wanted was 6 pounds on its own and I refused to pay that. There was then some issues with the drive-through as basically they forgot my order! So a bit anoyed, went in and had to pick it up. So a McDonald’s which should’ve taken one minute, ended up taking about seven minutes!

On the journey back we listen to music though a Bluetooth speaker. I do appreciate that I might of been slightly self-indulgent with being disappointed that I didn’t think I got it. But DBF didn’t seem to say anything. Near the end of the journey I deliberately chose the song “Days” by Kirsty MacColl to show my gratitude for all she did for me that day. When she dropped me off she seems absolutely fine and normal.

I have been home for about 20 minutes, when I had DBFs car pull up outside. I sensibly thought that I had forgotten something or picked somethings up In error: WRONG!! I answer the door to find her DM screaming that I am a ungrateful piece of st! And that I was a nightmare all day, as I was unsociable as I had my headphones in all day (er going back to poundland). When I try to defend myself and say I literally have done none of these things, she called me a liar. She went on to say how she needed her DDs help and that I just abused her! Transpires that she was angry because I didn’t give petrol money even though she asked me not to! All the things she said about me were completely fabricated and not true at all!

This really upset me so much: I actually ended up crying myself to sleep. Which is rare!

I had to leave college early today, as I was just so down I couldn’t concentrate on anything. This is where things get really strange! As I was walking back from the train station, guess who I hear: DBF caling my nick-name! I tell her that we need to talk, but she tells me she can’t as she will miss her train (she had 10 minutes!). I say to her that I didn’t appreciate her DM screaming at my front door. She said I know it was out of order and have told her off. I then tried to give her the money, but she literally just ran off like The Bloody White Rabbit, saying she was late. Unbelievable!

Not so much a AIBU, but more of a WWYD? DBF is like a sister to me and I really don’t want to ruin our friendship over this. But I would like some advice on how to go forward. Thank you

[BishopBrennansArse]

@FordPrefect42 I didn't say all autistics are incapable of those things, I said the OP wasn't being those things in this particular case, so a neurotypical person perceiving her to be those things in this particular situation was unfair.

I was once told by a paediatrician that autistic people couldn't lie - I know that's false too.

As for fitting in no I won't. I won't expect my kids to either. Obviously they're taught to not go out to hurt anyone and to be unkind, that nudity in public shouldn't happen - you know common decency things - but no.

Otherwise it's about being true to yourselves and I won't let them have the mental damage I had and refuse to allow to happen any more. If anyone bullies them for that I make sure those bullies face consequences and in every case of bullying so far it has been dealt with definitively.

[FordPrefect42]

To whoever said people on the spectrum can’t be selfish/manipulative/cheeky that’s a massive generalisation I’m afraid. Not all of us are bluntly honest and frank (I am personally of this type, but unfortunately I happen to know someone who is very selfish and I reckon they would go as far as to throw someone under a bus to get what they want 🙁)

Unfortunately we as autistics have to learn to adapt somewhat. It’s difficult and emotionally draining and I can say that from experience too. But faced with the decision of either painstakingly fitting in or getting bullied just like in the past? That is no contest for me...

[BlueJag]

@zzzzz that just mean.

[BlueJag]

@dustyfan at what moment was she taking advantage?
Op did as much as she could to make the day ok. It was a favour but that's what friends normally do.
To have her mother shouting at her that's out of order.

[BishopBrennansArse]

Why does acting neurotypical benefit an autistic person if it causes stress and trauma?

Other than rules on keeping self safe?

[BishopBrennansArse]

Great. You will be familiar with the diagnostic criteria for a diagnosis of autism, then?

The social communication deficit HAS to be present for a diagnosis to happen. Without that there is no triad of impairment and no diagnosis of autism.

This in itself means that yes social cues and nuances are impossible. Yes that can be worked on and improved but no autistic can consistently perform to a neurotypical level at all times. When under increased stress levels for example, in a meltdown or shutdown mode absolutely everything is impossible even for (and I hate using this term) so called high functioning people. Including people with the now non existent diagnosis of Asperger's. That is impossible and the expectation for any autistic person to do so is utterly unreasonable, prejudiced and ignorant.

As far as I am concerned there are things I do and try to help my kids to do such as use please and thank you and not be naked in public. There are more but as this post will already be the length of a book I won't carry this on. Other stuff I refuse to do as I value their and my mental health over an offended neurotypical person every single time.

If a neurotypical person wants to engage in flowery language and mind games by expecting us to engage in social nuance then no we don't do it (that whole "oh no, it's fine" tinkly laugh stuff I then take as fact, if they don't like it then tough). If a neurotypical person expects me to maintain eye contact then no I won't do it, it hurts and destroys my concentration. Neither of these things are actually going to harm a neurotypical person but they will harm me or my children.

If I need to stim I do it but in an appropriate way - for example if in a quiet place I will remove myself or do a silent stim. I won't ever stop my kids stimming, either - I might direct them out of a quiet area if necessary as I would myself but again stimming hurts nobody but not doing so would hurt us.

I'm not prepared to accept that the neurotypical way is 'right' just because there are more of them than autistic people. As I grew up I had parents and teachers 'teaching' me the 'right' way to behave for the most ridiculous things - see eye contact for one example. Also when I was bullied I was told to try to act like everyone else when I didn't have the first clue how to do so rather than the bullies being told to be more accepting of difference. All this 'teaching' the 'right' way left me with ptsd and anxiety disorders to the extent a psychiatrist said I do get to neurotic at times.

It's a sad fact that parents and carers of actually autistic people can sometimes tend to try and tell people they know more about autistic behaviour than autistic people themselves.

I'm really glad there are more of us in the adults with autism community being diagnosed and able to recount our experiences and put our feelings down in writing - and I think I can learn to live with what the world has done to me if I can stop it happening to my own children and autistic children yet to be born. Because unfortunately up until now it's only been parents and carers of autistic people speaking and some of those can be misguided to say the least, harmful at the worst.

It occurs to me that it's accepted that being forced against your natural state with regard to sexuality is accepted as harmful in society now, I only hope the same happens for neurodiversity one day. But it seems a long way away.

I just fail to see why being honest and straightforward with people is so terrible (provided you're not saying something that will be hurtful or nasty).

[NorfolkRattle]

How do I know some things about ASD?

My younger son has Autism and Serious/Complex learning Disabilities and Autism.

My older son has a diagnosis of Asperger's.

My OH and my OH's parents are almost certainly on the spectrum though have not been tested.

One of my SILs is almost certainly on the spectrum.

I have a friend who was diagnosed with Asperger's only a few years ago, in her 40s.

There are other people on this thread who have written how they have children and teenagers on the spectrum and how they are encouraging them with improving social skills, etc. Many people on the spectrum (whether or not formally diagnosed) speak of how they have to work on social skills. Yes, it is difficult and no, not everyone understands but improvements can me made. Brendan assumes that those improvements are being made solely for the benefit of the NT community but that is mistaken: improvements in social skills benefit the person him/herself at least as much.

You are making a lot of assumptions.



My "oppressed minority" comes from reading quite a lot of remarks such as the ones you and Brendan (and other people elsewhere) see fit to make.

[Smotheroffive]

No, there was nothing wrong with asking for a lift.
There was everythingwrong about BFs DM shouting at you like that (eff all to do with her)
When BF hesitated, then say, its ok, I'll use the train, actually its even quicker than driving!

Put a fiver in a card, don't say thank you again, you've shown your appreciation lots already. Just say its petrol money, and sorry for any confusion. Hope that all can be as it was before, that you can still be BF!

Has BF been in touch since? Have you now spoken?

What have you decided and how do you feel about it now?

Are you coming back, a lot of pp with good advice on here (ignoring those that aren't!)?

[HotSauceCommittee]

Hope you are ok, OP.
Please everyone be kind. The OP cried herself to sleep the other night. Regardless of whether we think she is right or wrong, we don’t want her in that state of distress again, do we?

[wotsittoyou]

"There's a stereotype that autistic people lack empathy. It's not usually true.

What is astoundingly clear is that a number of NT people have serious empathy impairments - and yet they get to be the normal ones, and we're disordered, and must become like them to fit in."

Indeed Chouetted.

We all vary in our ability to empathise with the thoughts and feelings of others, and we ALL have a relative deficit when it comes to empathising with people from other groups.

It is simply easier to empathise effectively with the thoughts and feelings of one who thinks and feels in a similar way to oneself.

A neurotypical (nt) person will probably find it easier to understand the perspective of a fellow nt - a person who shares many of the same thoughts, feelings and general ways of approaching an issue - than they would the perspective of a neurodiverse (nd) person - a person who thinks, feels and sees things in a substantially different way.

Similarly, an autistic person will probably find it easier to understand the perspective of a fellow autistic - a person who shares many of the same thoughts, feelings and general ways of approaching an issue - than they would the perspective of a nt person - a person who thinks, feels and sees things in a substantially different way.

The crucial difference in empathy here, isn't anything to do with aptitude, it is simply that autistics are on the wrong side of a power divide which supports the superior status of the - more powerful - neurotypical group and everything particular to them. Empathy with autistics doesn't matter and isn't even counted.

I'm absolutely fucking sick of reading utter bullshit about autism.

[Wedgiecar58]

@BlankTimes you’re making your own incorrect assumptions and posting conflicting statements.

[LunafortJest]

Does her mother know you have ASD? I only ask because I have it (didn't know I had Aspergers until I was in my late 30s) and I always knew as a child/teen I was different, but I didn't know why. Anyway, looking back now, I can see that a few mothers of my friends were kind of prejudiced against me. I was an extremely shy and quiet child and I was not trusted by a few people. In my early 20s, my best friend got married and from high school up she said I would be one of her bridesmaids (plural) but when she finally got engaged, she said she decided to have only one bm and that was her cousin, who she hadn't ever even mentioed existing before. It was quite obvious that her mother didn't want me to be a BM, and my own mother said that is what she felt, that it was her mother that said no.

I was always polite, quiet, shy, respectful. Yet I do know a few mothers didn't like me. And if you are her best friend, why would your bf's mother scream abuse at you? I think you need to have a long and honest talk with your friend about why your mother seems to dislike you so much.

[SnuggyBuggy]

I think MmmmHmmmm has it

[BlankTimes]

@wedgiecar58

No-one is forcing you to read anything I post, no-one is forcing you to respond.

No, I don't intend to in your words 'back off' If I see someone making incorrect assumptions about autism on this and many other threads, I may well choose to post to try and correct an inaccurate assumption.

[Chouetted]

@wedgiecar58 That's not remotely clear. I can wish that my friend wouldn't do X, Y or Z, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to do anything about it.

Clear would be "Do not ask her for X, Y, or Z, because ."

[BishopBrennansArse]

@Wedgiecar58 you're also cherry picking - this same DM has called the OP a piece of shit and a bitch so I'm pretty sure she wasn't being extra aware of her disability.

[BlankTimes]

@BishopBrennansArse

And this is why functioning labels are dangerous. Those that use them in the way Wedgie does utterly dismiss the very disabling nature of autism, and I say that as an autistic woman who some people would consider 'high functioning' - I can still go non verbal in high stress and my inability to communicate has meant a health problem got much worse than it should before it got treated as I wasn't able to express how it was impacting me

Absolutely, the HFAutism description ought to be widely circulated with a definition, so people who presume they know what it means will actually be made aware of the reality - which is a million miles away from their perception of what HFAutism means.

[Wedgiecar58]

@BlankTimes if it makes you feel good to take words of others out of context and twist them into meaning something else, you crack on.

My sentence that you took such umbrage to: I appreciate ASD might make it harder to pick up on these signals

You conveniently ignored the rest of my sentence: but the DM was making it quite clear (perhaps deliberately so, because she could see her daughter was willing to help).

Regardless of anyone with ASD, I think the mother made her feelings perfectly clear:

OP - DM tells me that she is not happy with her DD taking me to this interview/trial, and that she wished that DD had not agreed to take me in the first place.

The point I was making was that perhaps the mother was deliberately trying to spell it out, because she knew due to OP’s difficulties, there was no room for subtle hints.

Now back off attacking me over something you’ve cherry-picked from my post and changing how I meant it. I'm not interested in your essays on the diagnosis of autism, despite them proving my point and not yours

[BlankTimes]

@Wedgiecar58

Well if you want to play autism Top Trumps...
To be diagnosed with autism, the NAS says
"The characteristics of autism vary from one person to another, but in order for a diagnosis to be made, a person will usually be assessed as having had persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction and restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests since early childhood, to the extent that these "limit and impair everyday functioning"

Yes I'm fully aware it's a spectrum but in order to have a diagnosis, someone must fulfil the above criteria.

Have you any idea what "high functioning" actually means?

It does NOT mean 'can pass for a quirky NT in most circumstances' which is how it's most perceived.

I advocate for someone with diagnosed autism and have done so for over 25 years. This person faces idiotic comments from people who assume high functioning autism just means a slightly quirky personality.
Example: Me (as advocate because autistic client had said they were feeling too overwhelmed to communicate effectively themselves) to hospital consultant "client cannot do x and y because of one of the co-morbid conditions alongside their autism"

Hospital Consultant to me "Don't be ridiculous, of course client is capable of doing that"

which is just like trying to get the point across to people like you on this thread.

We face this disablist shite day in and day out from people who assume they know better about my client than my client does about their own capabilities.

[Mmmhmmm]

It sounds to me like your friend was fine doing this favour then her Mum wanted her help and she wavered but ultimately decided to help you since you asked first.

Then her Mum was pissed off that she helped you instead of her, so took it out on you.

The problem just sounds like her Mum is so selfish she'd rather her daughter flake out on a friend she'd said she help if it means she gets to use her daughter's time instead.

[BishopBrennansArse]

People with autism do have empathy, sometimes too much.
I definitely have more than some people on this thread, in my little finger.

[BishopBrennansArse]

And this is why functioning labels are dangerous. Those that use them in the way Wedgie does utterly dismiss the very disabling nature of autism, and I say that as an autistic woman who some people would consider 'high functioning' - I can still go non verbal in high stress and my inability to communicate has meant a health problem got much worse than it should before it got treated as I wasn't able to express how it was impacting me.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Just because op is high functioning, does not make it easier for her, actually it is harder as people expect her to be 'more normal'.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I don't think after that episode, op will be asking her friend for favours again! Sometimes you learn the hard way, unfortunately for the the op it was a very unpleasant experience. The friend is still young herself, I think this will be a learning curve for her, to be more assertive and to not tell her mum anything if she knows what is good for her.