That this work sickness policy is utterly crazy?

[SongforSal]

Been with the company over 2yrs and have always had a good sickness record. A few months ago I was very worried and in lots of pain as I had a period problem. My menstrual cycle lasted a good 3mths with only the odd day off. Other than a hospital appointment I had been waiting for an internal (I took a holiday day) there was one other day during this time, where I had to call in sick as I was in no position to work.

Last week, I called in sick for the day as I woke up in the night vomiting. Couldn't keep even water down. Didn't fancy the prospect of throwing up at my desk!

After a meeting with my boss, I was informed that having had 2 separate sick days, within a 6 month period, if I took another sick day within the next 6months-I would get a disciplinary!

Now, my contract allows 10 days per year paid sick leave. There are no stipulations, nor references to and reprimands, verbal or disciplinary procedures which may be enforced within this contract. Not that I have ever taken the piss.

Here comes the what the fuck rabbit hole have I just fallen down.

So. A colleague came into work today sweating, coughing, kept running to the bathroom, clearly very much unwell. On the back of a couple of weeks ago, when another colleague came in and spent 3 days at his desk with a cough, headache ect and chugging back lemsips. I asked my boss ''What happens if I catch this bug?'' and the reply I got was I could basically soldier on in as it is my choice to work, however if I got ill, and stayed home. You guessed it-a disciplinary.

So I am thinking I may need to invest in a hazmat suit for work, and fill the pockets with bloody dettol spray, as people are having to come in ill-or face reprimands! I can see why they feel forced to do so, but the knock on effect (selfishly) is I will get ill from being at work, and effectively punished if I take time off as to recover and not infect everyone else.

Does my place of work sound like a 18th century factory to you? Is this common?

I am shocked by all these policies!!!

I suggest having a google, I was just telling my husband about this thread as I thought you could not be dismissed for being genuinely ill.

The answer is yes technically but actually it’s hard to do and you could have a case for unfair dismissal- he also pointed out that the whole point of health reviews (disciplinary meeting) is also for your work to look at ways of minimising you getting ill so if you get ill from a sick colleague, who is struggling in for fear of being sacked, they have failed and again you would have a case against them.

Also if worked there over 2 years you have more rights, so have a good google and maybe see citizen advice.

Companies are supposed to be promoting healthy working for mind and body not putting fear into people with genuine cases of illness!

Good luck

gimme that manager wants sacking

fucks sake

catgirl yes I'm sure it's illegal too! bonkers that one of the most famously unionised employers in the country has these policies.

I am literally reading this open mouthed, absolutely stunned by the archaic, inhumane and completely backwards policies in place. It's 2019!! You wouldn't think it reading these examples.

Having been suffering from this incessant winter virus on and off for the past three weeks I've not thought twice about staying home when I felt unwell (twice this week and one day a couple of weeks ago) - mostly working from home but able to rest and take it easy and, importantly, reduce the risk of infecting people on the train and in the office.

I know not all jobs are the same, but for your standard office job I cannot see anything more pointless than making people drag themselves in when they're feeling crap. It's crazy. You can discipline piss-takers without punishing the 95% of honest people, you just need a half-decent manager and common sense.

I sometimes get frustrated working in the creative industry and roll my eyes at its desperate political correctness; but crikey, I had no idea so many people were still in the dark ages!!!

The Bradford scale, as mentioned upthread, is normal in lots of companies, including the one I work in. The number of incidences of you being off really matters. So two days off sick with a day in work in the middle is "worse" than two days off sick together.

Wow i moan about teaching but I have had quite a lot of time off in the last couple of years with serious depression and have only ever had support!

Yes I'm sure it is.

When was it invented?

before or after pregnant women were in the workplace.

and before or after it became acceptable to sack someone for having eg cancer

It’s standard unfortunately it’s better to take a month of sick than 4 separate days across a year ridiculous!

the "Red Tape" that the Brexiters like JRM want removed
is what the rest of us call "employment rights"

but Brexit was the will of the people

Unfortunately this is correct. Just before Christmas I caught what I thought was a stomach bug so took a day off. Went into work the next day still feeling a bit off and when I got home that night, was throwing up (couldn't keep a thing down all night and morning) so called in sick again the next day. I'd caught Norovirus! Even though it's within three days, same bug, I called in sick twice. I should have just stayed off!

I had a horrible cold last week (6 months pregnant as well) and felt as though I couldn't call in sick because it will have been my 3rd recorded sickness in 6 months 👎🏼

Valdy I wouldn’t be too concerned about being off whilst pregnant. Most businesses with any sense wouldn’t go near this issue. I work in HR and despite the reason for a pregnant worker being off we tread very carefully. Too much risk of a discrimination claim to make it worthwhile.

MountIron
Too much risk of a discrimination claim to make it worthwhile.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
You need to start searching the employment tribunal listings
LOTS employers break the law
knowing that employees will not have the money or energy to enforce their rights
www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions?keywords=&tribunal_decision_country%5B%5D=england-and-wales&tribunal_decision_categories%5B%5D=maternity-and-pregnancy-rights&tribunal_decision_decision_date%5Bfrom%5D=&tribunal_decision_decision_date%5Bto%5D=

OP, in your situation I don’t think a disciplinary meeting would achieve much. The intention of them should be to influence behaviour, not punish. You’ve been unlucky and some people are more resilient than others. Your absence level isn’t horrendous but a business has to decide what it considers acceptable. I’ve been lucky to have had no absence in 15 years but that’s not the norm. I have people sitting at 40+ days absence but usually we’re supporting a disability in those situations.

It’s a risk, that’s all and you have to balance that against how likely you think someone is to do anything. Depending on your business the reputational damage and repercussions may just not be worth it. More importantly you should be behaving with integrity and doing things for the right reasons.

Yup, I've recently been told I'm under management absence review as I had 3 days off in a 1yr period (seperate events).
Im quite annoyed as I only took a day each time as I was conscious of my work building up and feeling guilty for my colleagues having to cover for me, so I dragged myself in. I get repayed for my efforts with this.

I know now that if I'm unwell I may aswell take a week off as others have said taking a day or 5 days all counts as the same episode.

My work colleague who never takes time off has recently been very very poorly. As she had 9 days off and went over the 8 day policy she is now also under review. She was already feeling so guilty for the time she was off and couldn't relax. Now she is feeling stressed again about this and this stress will probably hinder her recovery. She is probably one of the most reliable and hardworking people in the whole place.

Also it really bugs me when on the return to work they ask can we do anything to prevent this happening again, errrr I was vomiting all night....not really sure what my manager can do to stop that happening again!, I have no idea of the reason myself!

Another example of an archaic system in this country. Go on, spread the germs. Makes such sense for the well-being if staff

Most jobs I've had have had a very similar policy. It seems silly but now I'm on the other side of things, it's to catch out people who have frequent days off. We used to have a member of staff who got frequent tummy bugs - always on a Monday morning!

Calling it a disciplinary is extremely heavy handed on their part. I am in the leadership team at a large org, our approach is that every absence should be followed up quickly with a back to work meeting. This is as much for our employees benefit as ours, to ensure they’re actually better and that we’re helping them best we can to avoid further absence. Disciplinary action would only kick in after a pattern of absenteeism becomes apparent with no real justification

That Bradford score stuff is awful, and we don’t use it because it’s such a cold, number crunching way of managing absence. When companies are fully staffed by half human robots, fine, but in the meantime I think it’s an appalling way to manage people. We have one of the absolute highest staff retention rates in our industry. It pays to treat your staff like humans.

100% the same in my workplace.

The issue I had was occy health made recommendations that weren't carried out, they recommended my sickness triggers be increased and various other things
People would come in sick as they didn't want to be disciplined, having no immune system I would catch everything and ended up on a final written warning. Eventually I got my condition under control by taking drugs with horrendous side effects, nearly managed the year without sickness and then needed spinal surgery 🤷🏽‍♀️

It might be the same
Other places but to answer your original question OP yes it is crazy. It is no way to treat employees. As PP have said, places re comparing 2 days to someone being off for months oj two occasions. No one can help being ill, so as long as you have a policy to deal with people taking the piss, then they shouldn’t waste their time and affec morale by chasing people who are off 2 days in 12 months

To people saying - yes it’s common - just because it happens doesn’t mean it’s right. My work does a lot of silly
Things but doesn’t mess around like that

I worked in HR (not policy though) and a similar rule was introduced. Their rationale was that it would deter piss takers and also allow them to be weeded out. Also if the employee was having problems I.e. stressed at work, being bullied, had issues at home these could be picked up on early and the employee supported. No idea if that worked for them as I left soon after.

3 seems to be the magic number. It triggers going "under review" at our company and maybe a chat with Occ Health. A fourth absence would get more formal.

3 absences in a 12 month rolling period isn't bad IF you've had a previous good attendance record and that would be taken into account during Occ Health meetings, but if you constantly have 3 or more sickdays in 12 months they will want to discuss any underlying issues.

@TalkinPeece
If the UK had not opted out of all of the EU employment directives it would not be as bad
After Brexit it will get much worse angry
Congratulations for introducing Brexit to this thread.
Which EU employment directives does Britain retain an opt out from, please?
How do these have anything to do with crappy absence policies dreamt up by crap employers?

"Valdy I wouldn’t be too concerned about being off whilst pregnant. Most businesses with any sense wouldn’t go near this issue. I work in HR and despite the reason for a pregnant worker being off we tread very carefully. Too much risk of a discrimination claim to make it worthwhile."

Shouldn't you not sack pregnant women for pregnancy related issues because it's not the right thing to do FGS

I mean it's against the law but that doesn't see to stop a lot of employers. I suppose they have done a similar risk assessment to you and decided the chance of a claim is low as it's so expensive now.

My estimation of HR has gone right down I didn't realise they thought in these terms but I suppose they work for the company not the employees.

Ours have the right to send you to the company doctor if you're off sick for more than 2 days and more than 3x a year. They say, it's to protect people and make sure that they're being supported but it's a threat they hang over people's heads

We’ve gone backward in this country
This kinda policy is bonkers