That this work sickness policy is utterly crazy?

[SongforSal]

Been with the company over 2yrs and have always had a good sickness record. A few months ago I was very worried and in lots of pain as I had a period problem. My menstrual cycle lasted a good 3mths with only the odd day off. Other than a hospital appointment I had been waiting for an internal (I took a holiday day) there was one other day during this time, where I had to call in sick as I was in no position to work.

Last week, I called in sick for the day as I woke up in the night vomiting. Couldn't keep even water down. Didn't fancy the prospect of throwing up at my desk!

After a meeting with my boss, I was informed that having had 2 separate sick days, within a 6 month period, if I took another sick day within the next 6months-I would get a disciplinary!

Now, my contract allows 10 days per year paid sick leave. There are no stipulations, nor references to and reprimands, verbal or disciplinary procedures which may be enforced within this contract. Not that I have ever taken the piss.

Here comes the what the fuck rabbit hole have I just fallen down.

So. A colleague came into work today sweating, coughing, kept running to the bathroom, clearly very much unwell. On the back of a couple of weeks ago, when another colleague came in and spent 3 days at his desk with a cough, headache ect and chugging back lemsips. I asked my boss ''What happens if I catch this bug?'' and the reply I got was I could basically soldier on in as it is my choice to work, however if I got ill, and stayed home. You guessed it-a disciplinary.

So I am thinking I may need to invest in a hazmat suit for work, and fill the pockets with bloody dettol spray, as people are having to come in ill-or face reprimands! I can see why they feel forced to do so, but the knock on effect (selfishly) is I will get ill from being at work, and effectively punished if I take time off as to recover and not infect everyone else.

Does my place of work sound like a 18th century factory to you? Is this common?

You work for a large company. You have to not take this personally and understand they have policies they have to follow so you a) are unfairly penalised, and/or b) there is a clearly set out process and chain of events documented should you decide to bring a grievance.

I suffer with migraines that were a lot worse about 8-10 years ago. I had several of these meetings, but ultimately when they saw me with a migraine at work (I get a very specific type of aura that means I can’t talk, plus I get facial sag on one side) they realised it was better for me to have the morning to take medication and sleep it off and do my shift later than penalise me for a chronic condition.

But I still had to have the meetings.

Btw I don't know if it's been said but your paid sick days are just the number of days they'll give you full pay for in the year. It doesn't relate to the absence management process

*FrenchJunebug

this is totally insane. You're ill you're ill. You cannot control when or for how long. I am aghast that some people think it's acceptable*

So, tell me how you have a policy standardised enough for thousands of people, but individual enough for team leaders or managers to say ‘I can see the issue won’t reoccur so I am not going to take action even though this is your 4th time off in three months’?

I’d love to hear your ideas!

Wow ltgreggs, so your staff can't see a dentist without taking a day off now? Or get a minor medical thing checked out with the GP before it gets major?

Maybe instead you should be addressing the real problem - that your one guy is "telling" not asking - rather than risking people's future health?

Or is it just easier to issue a blanket ban on something measurable, than have a couple of conversations about the more intangible attitude? Which is what a manager should do, because it's never just one area there's an attitude problem is there?

LtGreggs have I got this right? You are changing your policies because one poor person is sick and actually doing something about it by getting seen to? I don’t think he/she needs to ask when medical appointments come first in my opinion. We don’t treat our staff like that?

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira maybe you don't HAVE a policy - maybe you hire capable managers who can make decisions and demonstrate their reasoning? Within guidelines, but with leeway?

Gees no edit button to get rid of all these question marks post post!

Not RTFT

DH sickness policy is written out with 2 periods In x time then another in y time etc and goes warning, written warning, final warning, sacked

It also says that if it's a pregnant women then the manager "might" want to give consideration.

I was really taken aback I'd have thought that went against disability / maternity discrimination stuff

And he's in a v unionised public sector job
Although one without very many women which may explain it
Most of my employers have been private sector with generous benefits so I was shocke
Like, you get morning sickness, you're gone
It's a job where you can't necessarily solider on either due to safety

Bizarre

I suspect it was put in place to stop peple taking the piss & being v hard ot sack in public sector

BUT

now all that happens is that his collegaues take the max time off without breaching the rules
And the genuinely sick / long term ill / people who get cancer or whatever / or pregnant and have a bad time with health are out the door. In theory. anyway

Hey all,

Funny this thread should pop up for me today! I'm currently trying to get as many employed people as I can to take part in a survey about employee satisfaction for a work project. There's a question in there about the fairness of the sickness policy at your workplace. The aim of the survey is to be able to prove to employers that they would see better results if they offered better benefits. If I can get enough people to take part I should be able to do big things with it.

Here's the link . . .

www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/FVSPK7L

I'd be so grateful for your participation! Takes 3 mins to complete

You need to talk to a union rep if you are in a union but at least you do need to go to your doctor and get a note or something. I think if you're covered by that they can't pull any funny shit on you or fire you. I'm not 100% sure on this but see your doctor anyways and tell him or her.
Yeah this kind of thing does tend to be standard in a lot of companies unfortunately.
I've known it in catering for people to come in really poorly, diarrhoea etc as they've been threatened with disciplinary action due to similar rules if they don't or to be told it's too busy to be off on the sick. I remember being in a meeting many years ago as I'd been off with severe period pain three times. Nothing happened in the meeting and I was told it was just they had to do things by the books and I just had to struggle through instead of going off sick the following time. Ha, should have said I'll book in for a hysterectomy then.
These policies are unreasonable and the ones really abusing the system know how to get around them so it's the genuinely sick that get hit.

If the UK had not opted out of all of the EU employment directives it would not be as bad
After Brexit it will get much worse

agree talkinpeace

my belief is this was the main driver for the wealthier leave people
Money to be made

Not exactly - my point was that I have been happy for people to go to the odd dentist check up, doctor appointment etc, no question. And actually staff we've had with ongoing health issues they have quite reasonably discussed with us that they need to eg go to x clinic every fortnight or whatever and we've accommodated it with them. But someone just telling me that they are missing an hour every couple of weeks? That is either very naive, or taking the piss. And saying 'oh well he was allowed to go to the dentist so why wasn't I' is really going to get my back up! We are a business, not a charity.

The minority spoil it for the majority.

Shit happens and maybe you do get a run of bad luck where you take a few sick days over a certain period. If it's genuine and doesn't go on for ever I don't think you have much to worry about. But don't expect your employer not to ask you about it??

Ours is:

1st period of sickness - Return to work interview with manager
2nd period within rolling 6 months - informal caution
3rd period within rolling 12 months - first formal caution
4th period within rolling 18 months - second formal caution
5th period within rolling 24 months - dismissal

(Absence related to pregnancy / disability etc is excluded and managers have the discretion not to issue a caution (e.g. if it's a major illness etc).

Yours seems positively lenient by comparison. There's a very strange culture where I work. (FE)

Catgirl my DH is v similar with no explicit exception for pregnancy
It says, you might want to think about whether to apply this if it's pregnancy related

I'm sure that's illegal!

There are also no exceptions for long term disability, chronic conditions etc .

Public sector highly unised

I was VERY surprised.

That is indeed illegal Nothing

We are also public sector and unionised but the policies are quite draconion :(

And all it does is make me think if I need to go off sick for a day or two I might as well make it a week or two given the sanction will be the same! Been there a year and not had a day off but if I do need to...I'm not incentivised to hurry back!

I didn't go back to my job because of their sickness policy. I just resigned.

YANBU

That's my point LtGreggs - why fuck over the rest of your staff when it's one person who you could deal with as an individual? Address his behaviour. Putting a blanket ban on place turns you into the kind of employer good people don't want to work for. Is that what you want?

I don’t get the point of draconian systems, surely that just encourages employees to come into work when they are contagious?
The worst employees are probably the ones who “never take a day off” as they are the ones sharing all the bugs around.

I know someone whose mum died very suddenly abroad and she was signed off work for a week, she was asked on her return how she was planning to prevent it happening again.

Sounds ridiculous!! So people come to work sick, because they are scared they’ll lose their job and then spread germs and are ineffective. Is that really that common? You need a new company!

So they are threatening you if you take a further sick day, making 3 in a year? I'm confused, if the contract states 10 sick days then why would they do that? Surely they are doing something wrong here, and it sounds pretty Draconian to me!!