To regularly check my 14 year old's phone

[Frazzels]

14 year old DD has had a phone since she was 10 but I've always monitored what she does. She didn't mind it up until recently and she's saying her friend's parents don't do this. I'm doing it because she could access anything through that phone, I just want to make sure she's being sensible with it and she's safe. It does feel a bit like an invasion of her privacy and most people I know with DC of a similar age don't do this

Rivertam

Please explain how checking a phone (and never being able to find anything) is useful.

There is no way of telling a "hidden app" from a real one. Literally no way, unless you're an IT expert.

You think it's a calculator, you open it, it looks and works exactly like a calculator. It isn't a calculator, it's Whats App in disguise. How would you know? You wouldnt. Nobody would. So you check the phone, satisfy yourself that it's "clean" and hand it back. Arw you any less concerned now than you were before you checked? Of course not. Because you know you can't find anything that your kids dont want you to see. Tey will continue to text and exchange pictures with anybody they want. You can't stop them. Ever.

The reality is that as a parent you have absolutely no control over who your kids communicate with on line. None. Zero. Nada. Nothing.

Its not me you should be angry with. I'm just telling you the truth. If you give your child a smart phone, you are giving them unrestricted access to the internet and any perverts who are out there. And you can't stop them from messaging these people. You can't stop then at all.

To be honest, you only have to look at all the parents on Facebook who post photos of their children in school uniform to realise that most parents don't understand how to keep their DC safe online!

You're assuming so many children use hidden apps that it's pointless parents even trying to look - I don't agree with that (especially with younger children). You're also assuming that parents doing any checking at all will automatically lead to kids using hidden apps and immediately make it pointless - again, that doesn't follow.

Discretion is important. If you want to use occasional checking of the phone or things like find my phone to pick up on the rare and scary stuff, you have to resist the temptation to use things you find out to police ordinary everyday behaviour (however undesirably teenage it is).

For instance 'find my phone' is IMO firstly for my dd to find her phone and secondly for me to check roughly where she is if for some reason she's unexpectedly out of contact for a long time. It's not for me to use to find out that she went to a friend's house she wasn't supposed to go to one day, so I can tell her off for that.

Using that means of oversight to police everyday behaviour would indeed be to be over-controlling; using it as a safety net that might catch some of the scary and rare things that happen makes sense.

It's really important not to react to the everyday stuff (or if you do to do it quite subtly so it isn't obvious you're reacting to something you've seen) or all that will happen is things will get deleted, phones will get switched off and left behind and so on.

Save it for looking out for the dangerous stuff, don't count on it always working, but don't just shrug your shoulders and give up or assume that a teenager will always tell you everything so there's no need to be more proactive than that.

We have iPhone family sharing so I get notified of apps they download, they also don't know their iCloud passwords so can only download free ones. My boys are teenagers and I spot check their phones - if they don't like it I'll stop paying their bills.

Same here except any time ds wants to download an app I get an authorisation request.

Frazzels, please consider that, in addition to the aforementioned ease with which her activities can be hidden, does having regular checks really build a positive relationship? Showing a lack of trust leads to a situation where she's unlikely to come to you when she needs help. In other words, you're passively endangering her.

they also don't know their iCloud passwords

Unless you only ever log in on a computer to which they have no physical access and you use 2 factor authentication on a phone that you have never accessed in their presence (using a password, rather than biometrics) to secure that account then there's every chance they do know their iCloud passwords.

I do understand that tech-savvy teens (or those with tech-savvy) friends are able to run rings around their parents in terms of secret apps, hidden accounts etc.

These are things that they don't want their parents to see.

Surely much of the risk comes from chats that they think are harmless. It's not as though teens think "Great, I'm being groomed, best not let my parents know." The whole point is that they don't realise that they're being groomed - that's how it works.

I have checked and would check again. I work in a school and have quite intense safeguarding training, especially around grooming as the children I work with are incredibly vulnerable. One amazing session was delivered by a lady who had been involved in the most horrendous child sexual exploitation and she advised all parents to check their kids phones. So I do. Sometimes I ask and sometimes my spidey senses start to tingle and I check on the sly. Still got a really good relationship with my kids and not sorry about this at all.

I think it is sensible to do a degree of spot checking on 14 year olds phone. I think this even more after watching a grooming sting at the weekend in a town near me. A 22 year old man and his 36 year old girlfriend had been messaging lots of 14 year olds, really disgusting, scary things which the sting group all had and they thought they had arranged to meet one of the 14 year olds and take them back to the girlfriends house.

This was only discovered by parents checking things, or by the 14 year olds themselves becoming frightened and involving the group

I'm still not buying this idea that kids are too 'tech savvy' and this defeats the purpose of checking (not spying) on their phone.

Yes, kids are more 'au fait' with phones etc. because they've be brought up with them in the household but they're still kids, not Mi5 agents. If you think your child is hiding something (change of mood, excessive secrecy etc) then educate yourself.

I mentioned in a previous post that I'm an IT professional (digital marketing mind you, not security) so, before anyone says "it's easy for you", I simply Googled:

"Apps kids use to hide photos" and was given this link

www.carolinaparent.com/CP/Secret-Apps-Your-Teen-May-Be-Using-to-Hide-Photos-Videos-Messages-and-Files/

Probably not exhaustive but a good start and it took me 20 seconds to find (it even includes the, distinctive, secret calculator app a previous poster mentioned).

"But, just because they have the app, I can't see what's inside without a password"...Well tell them to open up the app, show you what they're hiding and then delete it...YOU are the parent (who is invariably paying for their phone) YOU are in charge.

So, what about their privacy? As another poster mentioned, we are not looking to police their lives. If I have to have words with my Stepdaughter and she then texts her friend "I hate my stepdad, he's such a cock! I'm glad he's not my real dad" or something, yes, I wouldn't like it, I wouldn't approve of the language and, had she said it to my face, she's have been picked up on it. However, it's typical teenage behaviour and I'm not going to hold her to account as it's not a danger (which is what we're looking for).

IF she said, for example, "I hate my Stepdad, think I'll run away and stay with Colin tonight" (contrived but feasible) then you have identified a potential danger which then SHOULD be addressed.

I've let her use computers, laptops, phones from a young ago with supervision because technology and the internet are always going to be about and be a part of their lives so they may aswell know how to use it but along with that I've taught her about internet safety and we've had long disscusions about the dangers like sending inappropriate pictures and grooming, I think she does have a lot of understanding about it but still she may not think as logically if she was ever in a situation like that. Checking her phone is somewhat me showing her that I want her to take this seriously and think about what she's doing on her phone and there's always the chance she could be doing something she doesn't believe is wrong or dangerous. Of course I can't physically stop her from doing many things but I wouldn't say not checking is any better. I'll probably do it less often now, she's old enough to start taking responsibility but I don't think I'll completely stop yet

I very rarely do have to check my DD's phone as, at the moment, she is a very open book. Sometimes too open! But she is still 12. As she gets more 'teen' and potentially doesn't reveal as much, I will check more. DD knows that I can pick her phone up at any point and look at it. I'm not doing it in secret. OK, there might be some stuff hidden but if she was looking at something harmful on instagram etc, I would be able to get an idea of that. I have read group messages where some of the language has been on the colourful side (even by my standards), not by my DD, but it's not up to me to take issue with that. Yes, it's not ideal but I'm looking for things that might be harmful so I'm not going to sweat the small stuff.

Unless you only ever log in on a computer to which they have no physical access and you use 2 factor authentication on a phone that you have never accessed in their presence (using a password, rather than biometrics) to secure that account then there's every chance they do know their iCloud passwords.

Yep, I do. I only ever use a password protected laptop that noone else uses.
Besides, I totally agree with what upyourdelores said.
It's not a case of "police everything or give up because there's no point!" That's ridiculous. You ignore a lots of silliness and swearing etc but you keep tabs on the stuff that might be dodgy.
And I'm sorry but to suggest that all 12/13/14 year olds are busy downloading secret vaults is a bit over the top.
They are honestly not all tech geniuses, plus I know how to Google this stuff too.
You still least have to try.
I have a friend who works in pastoral care in a private school. She said that the parents (all very middle class and busy) "trust" their kids, the kids have all the tech and are brought up by nannies who are not interested in what they are doing.
She said the stuff they tell her would make your hair white because nobody ever checks anything.
Of course there will be things your children do that get by you, we all know that. But as parents we can do the basics-secure passwords, correct privacy settings on apps, spot checks, keeping up with new apps. Actually, them just knowing we care enough about them to try and keep them safe is better than the alternative.

Personally I wish we could put the genie back in the bottle, and I'm fairly sure that if we had known what smart phones were going to be used for with relation to children we might have all thought twice about it and stuck with dumb phones.
It seems crazy that kids who are not yet allowed to get on a bus on their own are freely viewing porn, sending each other death threats and chatting to adult strangers online..

@IfNotNowThenWhy

"And I'm sorry but to suggest that all 12/13/14 year olds are busy downloading secret vaults is a bit over the top.
They are honestly not all tech geniuses, plus I know how to Google this stuff too.
You still least have to try."

Spot on.

*Unless you only ever log in on a computer to which they have no physical access and you use 2 factor authentication on a phone that you have never accessed in their presence (using a password, rather than biometrics) to secure that account then there's every chance they do know their iCloud passwords.

Yep, I do. I only ever use a password protected laptop that noone else uses.*

Add into that scenario a husband who changes the password so often even I lose track.

And I'm sorry but to suggest that all 12/13/14 year olds are busy downloading secret vaults is a bit over the top.
They are honestly not all tech geniuses, plus I know how to Google this stuff too.
You still least have to try

Again, spot on.

@Gronky they genuinely don't know their iCloud passwords, they wouldn't continue to bug me for things if they did

So today I have found out my DD has another insta account I did not know about. This is because I don't understand insta too well and DD2 age 13 was only allowed it, on the proviso that DD1, age 24 policed it. We took DD2s phone for her to check it all today, she told DD1 to make sure she checked the 'right one'. I am now added on both!

Also today, I have alerted a friend to her 12 year old DDs very 'sexy' pics, which she has made her DD delete. She did not see this herself, because her DD had created a new account that the mum had not been added to.

Anyone thinking we don't need to keep an eye out is incredibly naive!

I only ever use a password protected laptop that noone else uses.

I said 'physical access' very specifically. Unless the hard drive is strongly encrypted, it's frighteningly easy to install keyloggers and defang antivirus software so they won't be noticed. You don't even need to know the account passwords. A boot password might offer a slightly larger challenge but there's usually ways around these (they're easy enough to remove but that would tip off the main user). This isn't something that requires the resources of intelligence agencies, it's something that anyone with access to Google could accomplish.

they wouldn't continue to bug me for things if they did

The first thing you do when you have access to something you shouldn't is maintain the illusion that you don't have access. I'm not suggesting your DC are little criminal geniuses, I'm suggesting they're intelligent enough for cognitive empathy.